Religion is the ocean we must cross


Religion, obstacle to exploring consciousness?

Yes, I would say it is. Not just consciousness, but exploring the universe at all has been greatly gimped by religion throughout history. Generally religion and superstition have been and still is a threat to an enlightened society that values logic, reason and science together with critical thinking.

I don't know if religion is the ocean i want to cross. no offense in any way

Definitely an obstacle
I mean What is Religion?

IMO it's not necessarily religion that's the problem, it's fundamentalism, and it can manifest in both science and religion. Both can be blind under the veil of fundamentalism.

i find religion gets in the way of religion

I think religion gets in the way of spirituality. People are too busy trying to keep up with the heard, that they loose touch with themself. So many people are just thrown into a "religion" when they are born. Many don't even question what other possibilities are out there. They just except what is presented to them from the begining.

I think it depends upon the religion.

Most of westerners with an abrahamic religious upbringing probably find it very counter productive to our spirituality. Those brought up in the east under Hinduisitc (Is that a word?) religions often don't find it to be a hinderance.

Basically we have made religion a bad word in the west.

Peace

Well said, I agree.

I find that it is dangerous to be too general when speaking of religion or science.

I get why lots of people think that fundamentalism is the real hurdle to jump. Makes complete sense if you look around. Most of us can think about moderate, flexible religious beliefs. We can think about wicca, some forms of buddhism, taoism. We could even think about Santo Daime, or shamanism, as a system of beliefs and a view of the cosmos to which we could relate, as symbol or fact. It's a tragedy how the religious experience was kidnapped along with the word "religion" in our world, by toxic beliefs. Mostly abrahamic monotheisms. With placebo sacraments and power structures behind them.

I think the enemy is dogma. Dogma is completely made by man, it's the intellectual projection of hierarchy and control. Keeps religious experiences from being free and personal. Many people who don't behave like fundamentalists, who don't reenact every word in their holy book and in their preachers mouths, are still controlled by it. It's a brutal mind barrier.

While I generally agree that "the East" has spirituality more figured out than "the West" there are of course always shades of grey. Have you ever heard of a fundamentalist Buddhist? Alan Watts met one once. They're just as lost as the Christians, Jews or Muslims. I think Spartan as the jist of it.

I am not sure that oceans are obstacles to exploration... they are vast areas to be explored in and of themselves.

The trails I take when I go hiking are not obstacles to my reaching a summit view spot.

The goal is the journey and so on.

I think the analogy here is flawed... and it depends quite a bit on what one means when one says the word "religion."

Organized religion should not be confused with the direct religious experiences of the mystics and psychonauts whose trip reports form the basis of all religions. For most of us here on the nexus, spice travels to hyperspace are religious experiences. Ecstatic altered states and transpersonal journeys are not obstacles to exploring consciousness... the exact opposite I would say.

SpartanII was correct when he put the onus on fundamentalism. And as others have said since, dogma is the major obstacle to pioneering. Science can also be considered a religion in the hands of its fundamentalists, after all.

I love Alan Watts...

For those who don't watch the video, you must understand the Zen absurdity of the statement. Without the orchestra, there are no notes whatsoever... final or otherwise.

We don't listen to music only to hear the finale.

Classic.

[and produced by Trey Parker & Matt Stone no less]

I think it really comes down to what you view on religion is. For some people it means spiritual enlightenment for others it means a means to a end. However you look at it the truth of the matter is any vessel that allows you to explore the divine or unnatural things is ok in my book. I believe religion is fine but at the same time the business of religion is where the problem lays. I am pretty sure religion started off as a method to explore the universe that is within us then, due to man's easy corruptibility it turned into a greed infested business.

My philosophy is that any system of belief besides embracing the void of the unknown, (embracing the paradoxical nature of life) merely makes it easier for us. It certainly does not evolve us consciously. But it matters not, what will be will be, just be content with your belief. If you are happy setting limits and concepts to direct you, that's fine too, but you don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting me to follow it.

I think 'religion' in this context is referring more to spiritual enlightenment/journey, seems a bit of an odd choice in the context.

excellent clip! thank you

Religion is a bureaucracy between man and God, so naturally it gets in the way.

Religion is one of the things that plague humanity...it's sad that people believe in these things in the 21st century...I definitely agree

Religion can be one of the most beautiful aspects of humanity and, at the same time, one of the most utterly grotesque. Since the potential for beauty is so great, it is such a shame that the unfavourable aspects of religion exist and even more so since they get pushed to the forefront of our minds to the point where it seems that religion only brings about negativity.

Religion has been with humans since the Paleolithic era. It would seem a shame to rid the earth of something which is so embedded in our history and development.

Much love,
Sally xx