DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
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Jorkest wrote:ANYWAY back to the topic..it is now about 15 hours since SWIM took the 60mg of THH HCl and the 2 raw cacao beans...and he is still mildly stimulated..and euphoric..granted he smoked some weed recently but it hasnt made him tired..he can feel his body getting a bit sleepish but his mind still feels like it wants to be active..even though deep down it knows it wants its pillow..
he felt like he was able to get a lot done today..but this combo seemed to make it somewhat hard to concentrate..but only sometimes..not exactly something to do everyday..but really nice on the occasion...especially if you have to stay awake and alert for a long time...would probably be a good study aid...
he also noticed a few times when looking at text on a screen.. the letters would stretch apart from each other horizontally and then close back together..this was very subtle and started happening later in the night a few minutes after smoking some ganja..it looked like they were both moving together and apart at the same time..slowly though
hes kind of surprised that he was getting visuals when he payed attention..very slow moving..but they also have lasted all day and into the night..the weed helped obviously..but he doubts that 60mg of THH orally would still be doing something 15 hours later without the cacao..with not much sign of giving up too soon...he also has had slightly colorful CEV's..kind of like static with colored strips flowing about..he noticed a strip visual while petting a cat too..happened early on..
this has been quite surprising and he is interested in trying it out with DMT...he feels like it most certainly will be intensified by the cacao...and he thinks only a little bit would really be needed...its almost like he can feel how easily dmt would totally ramp up the visuals and body sensations..
probably a fairly speedy trip..but perhaps a little harmaline would balance out the stimulation...SWIM has noticed that THH has some stimulating effects like harmine except a bit clearer..
hes about to do some self hypnosis with what is left of the effects(which is quite a bit)
hes been doing these self hypnosis techniques to work on having out of body experiences while he sleeps..the techniques revolve around getting you to visualize yourself moving and doing things...he has had quite a few lucid dreams since trying spice out..and has been having them more frequently..he just wants to learn to control it better..its amazing how quickly the dream can suck you right back into itself and make you forget.. Jorkest, was there any nausea at all during this experience? When SWIM eats small amounts of chocolate during a pharmahuasca experience with harmine itβs the one thing that gives him nausea. He can drink coffee, eat pizza, etc., and heβs fine, but he canβt stomach chocolate candy. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
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DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 4342 Joined: 02-Oct-2008 Last visit: 19-Jan-2024
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hmmm no nausea..he wasnt super hungry at all..but he did eat a massive plate of spicy spaghetti with boar sausage onions garlic and parmesan...and drank a few beers later on in the afternoon...he didnt want to have any beer 3 hours after he took the combo..but thats about it
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DMT-Nexus member
  
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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I think the digression off the topic has at least been constructive. 69Ron made some statements that could have misled people to believe that the methylated xanthines increase the overall bloodflow. Bufoman correctly pointed out that the overall bloodflow is actually decreased. Now, bufoman, 69Ron has adressed your point, explaining that it's true the total bloodflow is decreased, but the useful bloodflow is actually increased (and cited a source to back this up). Now, rather than refuting his point logically or scientifically, you're resorting to ad hominem attacks and claiming that he "doesn't believe in science" (which we all know to be far from the truth). If you don't want to either refute or acknowledge his point, that's fine... but the petty finger-pointing is immature and unproductive. His explanation makes perfect sense and does not contradict the studies you posted. If you still feel it's incorrect, I think it'd be much more productive for you to explain why (though this would probably be best adressed in a seperate thread). Back on topic: I took a very low dose or 2 g rue and 1 g cacao today, and felt a mild but noticeable stimulation, rather pleasant and productive. Tomorrow I intend to experiment with a slightly higher dosage of cacao to observe how the effects change with dosage.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4342 Joined: 02-Oct-2008 Last visit: 19-Jan-2024
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thats nice to hear Entropymancer..how long did it last for?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Probably a good 10-12 hours. The stimulant effect was similar to caffeine, in that it made me both alert and paradoxically relaxed and prone to yawning/sleepiness (caffeine always makes me sleepy in lower doses). I'm curious whether a larger amount of cacao will overcome this barrier and be stimulating without making me tired. It's hard to explain how something can be stimulating while causing sleepiness, but that's how caffeine is for me, and that's how this was for me... maybe mild ADD (or just plain atypical brain chemistry) has something to do with it?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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Just out of curiosity why are all of 69ron's posts and links removed? This will be my last post regarding the topic however I cited over 10 journal articles, many from leading journals. 69ron cited a nutritionalist and a website where someone wrote in a question. I explained to him that vasodilation of the arteries leading to the brain actually decrease cerebral blood flow because of the decrease in pressure. He is right regarding other organ systems but he doesn't seem to understand that the brain is different because of its unique position relative to gravity and its importance in regulation of all other systems. I showed him countless studies, he says he disagrees with them but obviously has not read them. All I said was that overall blood flow to the brain is decreased, the capillaries of the brain undergo vasoconstriction this decreases flow. As to my ad hominem attacks this was only after I showed him countless articles which he obviously didn't look at. I refuted his argument several times but he ignored them and now he deleted his posts, which I would have too, seeing as his sources were a joke. I am not trying to be mean but I think if you are going to say something that is obviously wrong then when someone corrects you tell them they are wrong what do you expect? I just took a test on the cardiovasculature system in pathophysiology otherwise I probably wouldn't have said anything.
I understand science may believe things that are not true however please just type caffeine cerebral bloodflow into Google or anywhere and see how many articles from leading journals support what I said. 69ron did not site a single article, not one, just chat websites and a nutrisionalist trying to sell caffeine products. You can find anything online. Additionally his argument about it increasing GOOD blood flow is blatantly wrong caffeine reduces MRI effectiveness because it reduces all blood flow to the brain I cited this article as well. The only time blood flow is increased with this drug is when you are withdrawing from caffeine. What was wrong with the scientific method of the articles I cited?
Thank you all. I guess I now look as though I was arguing with myself.
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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This is all quite facinating. I ordered 15 grams of pure theobromine today. I look forward to seeing if that produces similar effects to cacao beans + MAOI's. It sounds like this is a great way to potentiate spice and aya. Getting good leaf for aya is expensive, so I would be really happy to have something as harmless as chocolate/theobromine to potentiate with. Even as just a nice, non-jittery stimulant (coffee just makes me too jittery after more than 2 cups) I think that it will be very useful. It's coming from across the pond so it may take a week or two (xmas and all) but I'll report back as soon as I've tried it. I guess I should probably pick up some cacao beans...although I've heard that a few tablespoons of hershey's syrup will do the trick as well. The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4342 Joined: 02-Oct-2008 Last visit: 19-Jan-2024
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yes...i wonder if you would need to take an maoi to make it do the same thing when you smoke it..
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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^I don't know but will be trying different routes of administration Nasal Oral Sublingual Rectal Vaporized With and without a THH and other harmala alkaloids. I suspect that nasal, sublingual, inhaled, and rectal will probably give some effects without an MAOI. We shall see! BTW the stuff was really cheap $10 for 15 grams of the stuff. Another thing I wonder is if it will satify female cravings for chocolate before and during menstration. I don't think the craving is all about the taste of chocolate, but rather what it has in it. This I will be testing out on my wife, who really, really likes her chocolate. The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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Dagger wrote:"bufoman" wrote:Thank you all. I guess I now look as though I was arguing with myself. Yes, it does look quite strange  I agree. I would prefer to have been able to read the whole conversation argument-next-to-counterargument. Now I lost all the gist of this argue... Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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Yes I said earlier that theobromine/caffeine most likely works via increasing absorption of THH and other compounds. This is one of the reasons caffeine is present in many drug mixtures. Also these compounds block cAMP degradation in the brain, thus any effect of these drugs that is mediated by cAMP will be enhanced in intensity and duration. This may be involved in the potentiation effects as well. Also the presence of phenethylamine in chocolate likely plays an important role in the psychoactive effects especially when administered with an MAOI (I gave references for this earlier as well. PEA is active orally as alone and with an MAOI)
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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Dagger wrote:"acolon_5" wrote:I suspect that nasal, sublingual, inhaled, and rectal will probably give some effects without an MAOI. Rectal dmt does work without a maoi. If I remember correctly, 3 times the oral dose was active, although not very powerful. Rectal dmt with a maoi taken orally is about 3 times as potent compared to taking dmt orally. I'm sorry I should have been more clear. I was speaking of taking pure theobromine. The questions I am trying to answer are 1) Is theobromine active without an MAOI. 2) Which routes of administration will give effects 3) Which routes of administration, if any, are compareable to theobromine + MAOI. This is all without DMT...of course I do plan on testing theobromine + vaporized DMT once I get the answers to the above questions answered. Quote:
Yes I said earlier that theobromine/caffeine most likely works via increasing absorption of THH and other compounds. This is one of the reasons caffeine is present in many drug mixtures. Also these compounds block cAMP degradation in the brain, thus any effect of these drugs that is mediated by cAMP will be enhanced in intensity and duration. This may be involved in the potentiation effects as well. Also the presence of phenethylamine in chocolate likely plays an important role in the psychoactive effects especially when administered with an MAOI (I gave references for this earlier as well. PEA is active orally as alone and with an MAOI)
Another question I'd like an answer to is theobromine not at all, partially, mostly, or completely responsible for the effects of cacao. A test between pure theobromine+MAOI and cacao+MAOI should help answer that question. The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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The only way to know for sure is to test it out.
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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bufoman wrote:The only way to know for sure is to test it out. Bioassays are so much fun! errr, I mean educational and informative...yeah! I plan on doing as many tests as I can with this stuff. After reading all the reports I could find on the effects of cacao, it sounds quite interesting and worth investigating. The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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Definitely SWIM just placed an order. SWIM's also gonna proceed slowly with some PEA and MAOIs and possibly some oleaminde and linoleamide.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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bufoman wrote:Yes I said earlier that theobromine/caffeine most likely works via increasing absorption of THH and other compounds. I'd take issue with this. Harmine/harmaline aren't particularly pleasant or stimulating when taken alone. While that explanation might hold up if these effects only occured with cacao+THH, the fact that it works very similarly with cacao + P harmala argues against the hypothesis. Plus, better absorbtion shouldn't lead the the duration of effect being lengthened several-fold... the effects of cacao+harmine/harmaline last 2-4 times as long as harmaline alone. And we shouldn't forget, the effect of caffeine+harmalas is very different than the effect of cacao+harmalas. Caffeine is just slightly more potent with harmala alkaloids in the mix. But cacao isn't just more potent, it's a whole different ballgame. Quote:Also the presence of phenethylamine in chocolate likely plays an important role in the psychoactive effects especially when administered with an MAOI (I gave references for this earlier as well. PEA is active orally as alone and with an MAOI) That argument sounds better, though still is probably only a part of the story. PEA+MAOI was shown to be a mood-lifter, not a surprisingly effective stimulant. I look forward to the reports of THH/harmine/harmaline combined with pure theobromine to give this issue some more context. There are plenty of phytochems in T cacao that could be playing a role in this pleasant phenomena.
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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bufoman wrote:Definitely SWIM just placed an order. SWIM's also gonna proceed slowly with some PEA and MAOIs and possibly some oleaminde and linoleamide. I've yet to hear of PEA being active by any route, or in combination. Please let us know if you do find it active! "Oleamide was found by researchers to be leaking out of polypropylene plastics used in laboratory experiments, affecting experimental results.[7] Since polypropylene is used in a wide number of food containers such as those for yogurt, the problem is being studied.[8]" Seems like we have all been ingesting a touch of oleamide. The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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Hahaha very interesting. Check out the study I posted earlier on regarding PEA and MAO-B Inhibitor in humans. SWIM has tried PEA alone and it is orally active around 60-100 mg. The effects are not much but definitely a noticeable mood enhancement and some mild peripheral effects. SWIM is very curious to see how this will play out in combo with MAOIs and THH as well as with theobromine and caffeine.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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I found an interesting article saying that the effects of methylxanthines result from there activity on serotonin neurons. Check it out:
Brain Res Brain Res Rev. 1992 May-Aug;17(2):139-70.Links
Caffeine and the central nervous system: mechanisms of action, biochemical, metabolic and psychostimulant effects.
Nehlig A, Daval JL, Debry G.
INSERM U 272 Université de Nancy I, France.
Caffeine is the most widely consumed central-nervous-system stimulant. Three main mechanisms of action of caffeine on the central nervous system have been described. Mobilization of intracellular calcium and inhibition of specific phosphodiesterases only occur at high non-physiological concentrations of caffeine. The only likely mechanism of action of the methylxanthine is the antagonism at the level of adenosine receptors. Caffeine increases energy metabolism throughout the brain but decreases at the same time cerebral blood flow, inducing a relative brain hypoperfusion. Caffeine activates noradrenaline neurons and seems to affect the local release of dopamine. Many of the alerting effects of caffeine may be related to the action of the methylxanthine on serotonin neurons. The methylxanthine induces dose-response increases in locomotor activity in animals. Its psychostimulant action on man is, however, often subtle and not very easy to detect. The effects of caffeine on learning, memory, performance and coordination are rather related to the methylxanthine action on arousal, vigilance and fatigue. Caffeine exerts obvious effects on anxiety and sleep which vary according to individual sensitivity to the methylxanthine. However, children in general do not appear more sensitive to methylxanthine effects than adults. The central nervous system does not seem to develop a great tolerance to the effects of caffeine although dependence and withdrawal symptoms are reported.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 75 Joined: 11-Aug-2008 Last visit: 28-Jan-2012
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thread resurrection! today I tried a cacao-rue combo. only been 30-40 minutes since I took it. 4g rue made into a tea, drank the tea and then a minute later ate 6g raw cacao beans over the course of a few minutes. did this after waking up so on an empty stomach so far. I have been drinking 3-4g rue teas every now and then over the last month. so i'll take notice of the differences that the cacao adds. all i can say is so far this last 15 minutes has been a very long 15 minutes! but not in an unpleasant way. feeling a little warmer in the face and only a tiny bit shakier in the stomach than usual. but just like rue it is not debilitating in any way. relaxing is REALLY relaxing, but at any moment I can get up and go, movements have more flow. i'll be back tonight with the rest  edit1: had a turkey-cheese-red-pepper-fermented plum sauce sandwich at t+1:00, then a white cream scone at t+2:00. no nausea or headache at all (I've never gotten nausea from straight rue tea either) edit: t +3:00-3:30 interesting. a few things to note later but, most prominently... when I tried to take san pedro (there was some confusion as to the dose and weight, and I ended up probably drinking a half-dose) the thing I noticed most then was that... when the sun was in my field of vision, I felt no need to squint as I usually do. it did not hurt even in the slightest to look at it for a second or two. a similar effect is happening now...not as strongly for sure. definitely can't look at the sun even for a second, but in the peripheral it is totally non-confrontational. there is... a presence between my skull and my eyebrows, and also at the back-left of the base of my skull. it's not a weight, it's not a pulsing, it's just there... for the past few hours I have definitely felt... under the effects of something, it is not subtle but it is not overwhelming either. the feeling of overall general contentment and time either dilating, or not being that concerning, are still on strong. straight rue tea usually only lasts a couple hours for me and this is still quite present. perhaps this dose was a little strong, as there is enough weight in the limbs to bring a present desire to lie down in the park and drink fruit juices. maybe it's just hot out and it's a slow day at work. I love my job. there's an african drumming and dance concert in a few hours, it would be nice if this was still in good effect when that is in full swing. more at the end of the night
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