So you think you are free, because your country tells you that you are a free citizen?? Well you are, as long as you live your "freedom" in the way your society dictates.

-If you wanna go speak to God, then you go to the church, and read the bible.

-If you want a meaningful life, then you find yourself a good job, partner, house, etc-and bobs your uncle!

-If you wanna let your hair down, there's a liquor and tobacconist store near you!!

( there is no place for mind altering and consciousness expanding entheogens in THIS society!!)

---Yes folks, as long as you believe that the above is generally all that there is to life, and the rest is junk, then good for you.

>>Luckily However, there are some people out there who have "seen the light", and know that 90% of the above is small minded "thinking" that doesn't do life any justice at all.

-Unfortunately the reality is that 90% the population think that the above is all there basically is to life. They think they are free, but they are not. They do not know, and have not seen the light for themselves. The governments don't want them to see it. These people are simply existing in a fabricated lie...i just hope that they one day realise this....WHAT DO YOU THINK??

"But, as you well know, appearances can be deceiving, which brings me back to the reason why we're here. We're not here because we're free. We're here because we're not free. There is no escaping reason; no denying purpose. Because as we both know, without purpose, we would not exist." - Agent Smith -

It's a simple strategy for those that control us, be it the government or corporate interests, or whoever really calls the shots. Keep telling everyone that they are free, that things like work and money are neccessary for survival and that this is the best place on earth and eventually people don't question it anymore because they don't know any better. If you lived as a slave in a coal mine in a 3rd world country somewhere and it's all you ever knew, and your slave masters whipped you and told you to be happy because you were free and this is what freedom means, you would have no external reference to prove what freedom is or isn't and would be forced into believing your slave existence was what freedom was.

It's like Plato's allegory of the cave. If a group of people chained up in a cave were staring at the shadows on the cavern wall, they would assume that to be reality. If one smart person broke free of their bindings, left the cave and experienced the light and sun outside the cave, he would be amazed that his entire life up until that point had been in bondage and he hadn't realized it! Being so overjoyed at this revelation, he would return to his family still fixated on the shadows of the cave wall and tell them of his adventures in the sunlit real world, but due to fear and ignorance, his family would not believe him and since they would be unwilling to see for themselves, they would continue on in their dark, dank misery all the while believeing they were free but not being aware they were chained hand and foot to the cavern.

So to reiterate Smith's words... we are here because we are not free. Our animosity and angst with being human and all the suffering and bullcrap associated with being on Earth and being human is like being chained to the inside of a cave and believeing that's true freedom. However, take a step outside into hyperspace and you know, KNOW that in our current state, we are not free...

I would put it closer to 90%, but otherwise...er... duh?

Thanks, tek.

-That was an excellent reply. I'm glad that we both have a similar viewpoint.

-Yes, JDUBS, 90% seems like a better figure, adjusted!

If you want to experience freedom, then first you'll have to experience that you're not free at all. That's just how it works.

I think you are making some horrible generalizations and accusations, christian. It is unwise to go on again and again on some rant talking about how stupid/simple/ignorant/what have you rest of humanity is because they have not experienced psychedelics. At the same time you claim to have seen some truth that is hidden and universal, making you better than the rest who haven't seen it. What is this fantastic truth, anyway? Do you not see that this is a terrible and egocentric attitude? It's very distasteful to say that 90% of humanity is living in a fabricated lie. The world is just not so simple, life is more complicated than that.

You are not special because you have taken psychedelics, you are not better than others, neither do you hold some ultimate universal truth anymore than anyone else does. Please snap out of it and realize that your thoughts, feelings and perspectives doesn't apply to all of humanity.

-Sorry Citta, but you read me wrong, there's no egocentricness when it comes to dealing with the honest truth. I never said or even tried to say i was "better"?? . I'm sorry that you appear to have judgements which are blocking your natural flow it seems, otherwise you would not have come to such a conclusion.

Whatever you say, but you are still serving some very distasteful generalizations and accusations. My wish is that you understand that truth for you is not necessarily truth for others. We live different lives, we have different thoughts, feelings and perspectives, we have different ambitions and different goals. Who are you to say that everything is a lie and that people should wake up? I understand that you wish to start a debate, but perhaps formulating yourself in a different way would be appropriate, because you come off as a guy who thinks he knows what is right for everyone.

Who am i??..I am me, with my own simple post.

--If it does not resonate with some people, then that's ok, because they are free to choose to look at other posts that do. It is not my duty to make my posts "family friendly", but as honest as possible.

--Some people like them, some don't , i guess. If you don't like them, then that's ok. I respect your ability to choose your response.

---EDIT:- I have re read my initial post once again, and cannot see anything offensive or nasty about it whatsoever. I do not call anybody stupid/thick/ or whatever???...Which leads me to ask, " are you ok, Citta...perhaps you didn't get a decent sleep or had a bad day??"..because i don't understand your response tone and offish'ness??

Now this is an example of your close mindedness here at the forum. You dodge direct confrontation, simply avoiding giving a good response with some serious arguments to back up your claims. You don't seem to be open to debate with people that raise some critical questions to your views and opinions. Saying that your post doesn't resonate with others is not good enough in a debate when confronted with counter arguments. I would love you to seriously debate with me instead of just ignoring the questions I raise because your post doesn't resonate with me.

What psychedelics (and some common sense and critical thinking) have shown me is that, depending on how you look at things, none of us are free. We are all constrained by the laws of physics, aren’t we?

---EDIT:- I have re read my initial post once again, and cannot see anything offensive or nasty about it whatsoever. I do not call anybody stupid/thick/ or whatever???...Which leads me to ask, " are you ok, Citta...perhaps you didn't get a decent sleep or had a bad day??"..because i don't understand your response tone and offish'ness?? Embarrased Surprised

--Stop instigating arguments please, Citta. You have already accused me of calling people stupid, etc. I didn't. I hope this isn't another one of your arguing threads???

Isn't an argument the best method to get to the bottom of something? I think the problem here, Christian, is that by argument you think people are attacking you - when they are just trying to reason with you.

Agreed, it's pretty interesting actually.



Allright, I agree you didn't directly say people was stupid. But however, when you say that 90% of humanity is living in a fabricated lie because of their lives in our society, and that this again is because they have not "seen the light" and that you hope they will wake up, than you are certainly from my point of view insinuating that you in fact have woken up and that the rest who have not is ignorant of the truth you claim to know. This is not unproblematic to claim, hence why I started debating with you in the first place.

This is a forum where we express views and opinions, where we debate. You should expect to have your claims and views challenged when publicly expressing them.

Oh and yes, I am perfectly okay, thank you =)

I agree with Citta here; I think Christians opening post is what I would describe as a bit of a polemic.

Christian-you say 90% of the population hold the views you cite;is this 90% in your country or worldwide? IME, worldwide, people have many more basic concerns than the ones you mention.

Speaking with God gets a mixed response at the Nexus but many dont attend churches or read the bible to achieve this.

The Nexus has members and visitors from all over, I would have thought, so your comments do not have the same resonance with many as they may have with you.

I don't doubt your description fits the bill for some people, but the percentage you cite needs elaborating on to put in some kind of context.

play nice people..

The mere fact that the majority of the world is completely unaware of the existence of this other realm is proof that the majority of people are still asleep.

The mere fact that the majority of people are more concerned with their bank accounts and fancy toys is proof that the majority of people are still asleep.

The fact that science doesn't view psychedelics as an area of legitimate research (barring a few studies here and there) is proof that many people are still asleep.

The fact that people hurt, kill, steal, rape, and ravage others and the planet is proof that many people are still asleep.

The fact that millions of people align themselves with religious institutions that demonize groups of people and categorize them according to things like sexual preference, race, and gender, is proof that many people are still asleep.

Now here's the catch-22...

The mere fact that we are here spending our time discussing the fact that so many people are still asleep shows that we ourselves are still asleep, for in the truest sense those 'other people' are actually ourselves. If the left hand can move and the right hand is still paralyzed, the left hand cannot possibly be proud or feel superior to the right hand for it's accomplishment for indeed they are connected to the same thing.

OK, i accept that perhaps my title post could have read a bit "condascending", but it wasn't meant to be so. It was a quick post "off the cuff", and it's purpose was to get people talking about their ideas of freedom in todays society, rather than question and dissect my own views.

-tIS why i ask people "what do they think"

I tend to agree with Citta here. This thread is filled with so many vague, generic terms like "asleep" and "free". What are these but our own human concepts? These are things we have defined, therefore we are caging ourselves by limiting ourselves to these categories in the first place.
As to what Tek just posted, how can you or anyone be in any special position to judge whether other people are asleep(which implies some sort of boundary that limits your freedom)? I don't think people are in a lesser position because they are materialistic or haven't used psychedelics. We tend to view ourselves as special(innate psychology), but in truth we are all actually pretty similar and see the world in a similar way, its only our interpretation of it that changes with experiences.
I think the only thing that someone who has done psychs has over someone else is an understanding of the nature and fragility of consciousness. The fact is, we only see things through our narrow lens of consciousness so I don't think any of us are in a position to judge whether others are "awake" or "free", when in fact all of us could be asleep and locked in some mental prison. Don't be so quick to think you are suddenly in some advantaged or enlightened position because you took a psychedelic drug, or tripped balls. These are just induced mental states, to an outside observer there is nothing special going on or happening to you aside from brain chemistry.