The way i see things is like this. From what i've gathered so far, and this is based on years of reading stuff here and there, as well as reflection, etc...

-I cannot doubt the fact that Jesus Christ may have taken, or used Psychadelic drugs. In the past it was normal for people to use plants to have their spiritual encounters.I believe that Jesus's disciples noted down the spiritual insights that Jesus had into the Bible, like we have trip reports on this forum. I also believe that Moses may have come up with the 10 commandments after imbibing mushrooms.There is a lot of mushroom connections with Jesus, and the design of a church with gargoyles is very "shroom" like.

-So i think that magic mushrooms were very much used to help create the Bible and Catholic Church. Of course to gain Power and strength, the Catholic church had to tell people to stop taking Shrooms, etc- and listen to their wisdom instead, "because it was the only way to reach the kingdom in heaven"...This was achieved through the use of force, and "religious police" killed those that were against the Church, (and into their shrooms instead.)

-So the Church wanted you to get to God via visiting Church and making donations, etc, and if you disobeyed- so help you, god!!---(This was totally the opposite to people simply munching a few shrooms and having a peak spiritual experience, which is why they worked so hard at protecting their deception.)

> O.K, you are free to disagree, but why after years of Christianity are Churches fading to dust, i ask??. Could it be because the Bibles interpretations are unclear and potentially misleading, potentially to even cause conflict and wars??.../ Is it because no matter how many times i went to Church i never felt in the prescence of anything else than boredom?....??/ Could it be the Paedophile priests???....WHO KNOWS!!

-I say that human wisdom tells us that in the end, we must see evidence for ourselves- or we cannot truly believe in it. The Catholic Church cannot provide this, and never could. Words are just words. This explains why they used force, and guilt, and ideas of hell, to scare us into believing a lie.


-Psilocybin is now being researched as a useful aid in psychotherapy. People have described its effects as being within the top 5 most important life event experience, such as falling in love the 1'st time, the birth of their 1'st child, the death of a spouse, etc,etc. (--Being a Christian is not in this list..:lol

-You see, there is one god??, and you have to meet him yourself, and on your own personal terms. Not by some old stuffy dogma written by some closed minded fools. Psilocybin simply removes the resistance to your access to this god??. God is always there, but it is the distraction of the dogma of the Church, and life duties that cloud your access to the simple divine or "universal consciousness" connection...:idea: ( just my idea, folks, so don't take it too seriously )

-The idea that to connect with God you must do it via a stuffy book, or Granite Church that stinks of old socks is simply a laughable old wives tale. Does this mean that everyone previous to the Church or bible thing were evil sinners???..What a laughable load of crap that is..Wake up people, and look to the truth i say. Learn about the people that were killed because they didn't wanna be a part of a lie. Maybe then you will think again....?

--Believe in all this Bible and Church stuff, and you might as well still believe that the Earth is flat....Thank "god" for Science, and people making their own experiences in life, ( and trusting them-rather than being told to trust someone elses....:idea: )

--I believe that a simple natural life contains everything including the "teaching plants" we need to live the way nature intended, and that Religions are simply another form of Power and Control over the peoples, by people we have let become Authority figures.

---So , if you wanna join the ship of fools and become a happy Christian, well, say no more....

A catholic missionary told an aboriginal tribesman that he must accept christ as his lord and saviour or he would spend an eternity burning in hell. The tribesman asked if this would hold true for those that did not know about it. The missionary replied that it would not. The tribseman the replied, "Then why did you tell me?"

Fear propaganda is one of their main strategies. Nice little story, DimensionlessBeing -

I recognized this behavior in many religions and I believe it's just a mental trick to lure you into trusting their holy ideas about what you should believe.

Christianity is not the religion practiced by JC.

Not only wasn't he a Christian, but no one called him Christ until well after he was gone. He worshiped outdoors, and considered the word church to mean 'community of people who have the Holy Spirit.'

Most Christians know nothing of their faith. The word Christ is from the Greek Kristos. It became applied to JC when the Jewish Apostles began explaining the divine man idea to Greeks who immediately recognized the concept. They had already adopted the word Kristos from the Persian Krista which has its origins in the Sanskrit word Krishna. Thus, the Greeks were hearing stories about a Jewish man-god and called him Krishna. You could just as well call the religion Krishnaianity.

A lot of the vitriol against religion comes because of what people have done to it over the years. The simple esoteric mysticism of the man you call Jesus was clearly an offshoot of Essene Judaism with a very distinct Nazir (the branch of Judaism practiced by Samson) flavor.

Here we have a Jew explaining Jewish beliefs allegorically to other Jews and somehow people think they can co-opt the thing and claim to accept Jesus while knowing nothing about mystical Judaism. Wrong. You claim to love someone, but you don't even bother to know his name. The one that his mom called him. Nobody worships Napoleon, but we don't refer to him as Naps.

You wanna make Christianity work? Stop being a Christian, and study the Qabbalistic Essene Judaism that Jesus actually practiced. If Christianity as practiced today actually worked, you would be seeing miracles and healings going down at every church... all day every day.

In truth, nothing in Jesus' message was fear based or about placing your hope in some distant afterlife. It is a rather simplistic hippy dippy philosophy plastered onto a readers digest version of Sumerian creation stories that have been redacted to combine the gods into one G*d. Often simply by only calling the King of the gods, G*d and referring to the rest as angels and demons.

Miraculously, there is still truth left in the Bible. It is mostly hidden and coded in gematria and numerology, but it is still there if you look for it. Personally, I think you are better off taking a more direct route and experiencing the truth yourself... but to each their own.

I agree partially, but there is quite a bit of evidence that Jesus actually studied in India with the saints and sages there. Get the book, "Jesus lived in India" for the evidence. Personally I think he brought back a more hindu/buddhist based philosophy than a mystical jewish tradition.

For sure I agree though...Christianity today has very little if anything to do with the real Jesus. In fact the entire Bible is a hoax at best. We have 4 accounts of JC according to the Bible. The first, Mark, was written about 50 years after he died. The other three were largely plagiarizations of Mark and were written up to 150 years after he died.

The Gnostics, The Gospel of Thomas, and The Gospel of Mary all teach a more mystical based form of worship, but were rejected by the church. Christianity as we know it today literally started around 330 A.D when Constantine made it the religion of Rome so he could gather suport for a war. His close confidents said he never actually converted even though he said Jesus came to him in a vision and told him that he would win an upcoming battle.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three worst religions this planet has ever seen. I mean know offense to anyone, but history proves my point. Like a virus these religious spread across the planet destroying culture after culture.

I'll Take Jesus and Muhammed any day of the weak. But the the crappy religions they left behind need to die. Period. As for Judaism...what more is there to say. I mean their God commands them to kill non-believers. Their God is claimed to have killed all the first born children, rained down hell fire and brim stone, flooded the planet...oh and potentially forced his only begotten son to die a horrible death on a cross so our pathetic souls can get to heaven.

Fuck abrahamic religions. Detestable ignorant bullshit. I need to go meditate on this now.... Peace

`` mostly agree.

Whether Jesus spent his missing years in Egypt, India, Persia, all or none of the above is not such a big deal. Clearly, all of the concepts from these cultures were being passed along the silk and spice routes anyway. The Jews spent captivities in Egypt, Babylon and Persia as it is, and adopted much of the so-called mythologies of these places into their own tradition.

Abraham was the son of an idol-maker in Ur. In the Chaldean and Neo Sumerian culture, this was a high position, so it is certain that Abraham was well versed in Sumerian history and belief. Thus it is no surprise that the stories in Genesis correlate extremely with Sumerian stories. The Garden of Eden, The Flood, The Wars of the gods etc. The Biblical G*d seems schizophrenic because he is an amalgamation of a number of different and competing Annunaki. He decides to flood the world to get rid of people, then changes his mind and goes through some roundabout way of saving Noah and his family? He can make a flood but not save who he wants? In the Sumerian version it was Enlil who decreed the flood, and Enki who tried to save one of his demigod offspring and his family. Makes more sense to me.

This kind of thing goes all through the Bible. G*d talks to himself in the royal we all the time, but in situations that would logically indicate other people. After Adam & Eve ate from one of the two forbidden trees he says "Look, the man has become like unto us, knowing good and evil. Now, to prevent his putting out his hand and taking also from the tree of life, eating, and living forever we shall send him out of the garden..." Not exactly something you would say to yourself. Especially if you were an all powerful being who could have protected his trees a bit better if he wanted. Hehehe. The Sumerian version again has multiple gods talking in this scene.

Anyway. This is not a defense of Abrahamic religions. More of a key in deciphering the secrets that they hide.

Man has been living on the Earth for a great many years before religions took off. So what are they i ask???

-I propose that they are simply a means to control people and keep them "under control". What better way then to "tie them up in knots", by telling them to believe in something that opposes their natural impulses. That instead of trusting their impulses, and just acting they should think about how they are "supposed" to act.

-What a crock of shit!..Religion has done nothing except to hinder our healthy natural evolution, with a system that impedes our natural flow- with "laws".

-Since when has religion helped man to eat, sleep, have sex, and build shelter, and fight off predators.

-Why are Churches full of gold when the 3rd world countries are dying of starvation??

--A complete waste of time IMO.,Religion is only there for those that formed it, not us!!

---So what's it gonna be??...a tiny innocent shroomie growing in the moist morning grass, in the nature...Or some Dark, dank building resembling hell with gargoyles, filled with miserable dull people in suits, trying not to bored with a sermon that makes no sense to them whatsoever ??

Not to get into a lengthy debate, but the Shaolin Monks are a religious order, and they have developed a ton of techniques that help them eat, sleep, have sex and fight off predators. Because of people like them, I was able to learn many of those techniques halfway around the world and without even ascribing to their religion per se.

Amazing things have been accomplished by religious people all throughout the ages. Isaac Newton was an alchemist, theologian, and natural philosopher.

Organizations of a certain size tend to be authoritarian and cause more harm than good, but this is true of political organizations and economic organizations equally so.

Tossing out religious knowledge and the natural impulse for sacred ritual in toto is a mistake IMO. It would be like discarding all of math and science because Oppenheimer developed the nuclear bomb. Should we stop our research into biology because many biologists are employed in biological warfare?

Isn't this a case of the baby and the bath water?

After all, I personally haven't suffered all that much because of religious people. Whereas scientist are bombarding our very homes with radiation, microwaves, chemicals, microbes and pollution. Did Christians give us antibiotic resistant bacteria? Was it Moslems who invented factor farmed animals pumped with hormones and drugs? Are Hindus the ones that fill my tofu with GMO soy?

Personally, I am a bit more concerned with the guys in white coats with oversized egos who experiment on population centers without even the slightest thought as to what gives them the right... than people who cling to medieval spiritual concepts out of a feeling of being lost and confused.

Sorry, Hyperspace but i disagree on certain points. Religion to me has little to do with what shaolin monks can do. They can do what they do because they learnt to protect themselves. This has little to do with their original religion, but became incorporated into their new one. Let's not mix the 2 up. Again, i think religion is simply a distortion that man doesn't need.

--Where in nature do we see animals that use religions??..they don't. They simply complete the actions that they need to in order to survive. This is what we also do. Religion does not provide anything helpful except a notion of hope??...and even then it is misunderstood. Religion therefore seems like something we do like worrying if you like..perhaps because we have nothing positive to do instead??? :idea:

The Shaolin Monks would disagree with you. They believe their arts to be an integral extension of their Buddhist religious beliefs.

Yoga, despite its secularization in the west, is a religious practice outlined in the Vedic sutras. Patanjali considered himself religious, and because of him, housewives can do some half-assed pranayama while trying to slide into downward dog.

Same goes for the people who gave us Ayahuasca, Iboga, and psilocybe mushrooms... amanitas as well. The knowledge is not tied to the religion as I said, but it did evolve from the religious practice.

Who can say what animals practice. They seem to have esoteric practices actually... cats do a kind of yoga.

OK, fair point, Hyperspace Fool, But i think we are getting a bit lost here. Whilst i understand that ritual has been built into Ayahuasca use, and Shaolin Monk Buddhism, etc, i think we have to realise that ritual is a kind of religion in itself.

-I think we can adapt and create all sorts of things as humans, but i don't think that obeying a religion necessarily will free us, because life is huge, and any form of control is simply an illusion in this life. In fact i believe that we are simply no more than we believe we are. This does not make us free to the truth, but simply closed off and ignorant to something we cannot possibly understand or comprehend......:idea:

--That is why my mantra is "quit working it out", JUST LIVE LIFE..... You see, i doubt that the most accomplished monk can ever even touch the immenceness of what is...We can only believe what we have the ability to, and the human being is not perfect, and will never be, no matter how long one tries. Only at death, when all our defences are down, will we be truly free....

True enough.

My point, if it can be said I am making one at all, is that we should embrace the workable knowledge we receive... whether from science or from religion. That it is the usefulness of the knowledge that should guide us in our selection.

Religion and Science while seeming to be opposites are not irreconcilable. They are both limited, colored by their more egregious failures, and limited by the large organizations that seem to control them. The path forward lies in individuals taking the best of both and synthesizing new worldviews that take into account the material and the world of consciousness. Developing technologies that embrace the precision and analytic prowess of western materialism AND the holism and deep intuitive leaps of eastern spiritualism. Laboratory chemicals alongside indigenous brews. Nutritional supplements, break dancing and shamanic trance...

Hehehe.

Seriously, though. Science can learn a bit about ethics and morals from the spiritual people. And the spiritualists can learn a thing or two about rational systems design.

Just saying.

Good points there, Hyperspace fool.

- I agree that it is our duty as intelligent beings, to understand and learn from what we have, so that we can now make the best of things. That certainly is how i try to live.

-My "religion"..., rather way of life, is one of "live by doing", and trial and error. I used to be a perfectionist, but hardly got anything useful done, because i was scared of making mistakes. But my newer philosophies soon had me experimenting and getting my pristine hands dirty, as i chose to embrace this adventure called "just living a life that works for me".

-I'm glad that i've worked past world religions, and seen just how ingrained some of the population are in their programming. I guess it's nice to know that the things us humans fuss about and easily get lost in , are truly trivial things , and nothing compared to the immenceness of what is, and can be. I am glad that i have experienced things, like i'm sure you have, Hyperspace, that have given me all the "proof" that i need to feel this thought. That same place where money is of no value, whatsoever..Where nothing on this earth even comes close to....

I dont even believe jesus existed..and for those that do, can you explain to me why?..when there is so much evidence that jesus was the sun god?

I think as a whole christianity today is a fake. I used to go to a christian youth group at one point in my life..I went to bible camp once as a kid..I knew lots of christians. Nearly all of them stuck me as strung out and jaded as anyone else. A happy smile slapped on someones face as they attempt to convert everyone onto the path does not mean much to me..I used to have these guys come to my door all the time, and they smiled at me and looked happy as well..but it was annoying as hell and sickens me people resort to this..trying to round up people this way into they're cult..and how many more people around the world are going to have to suffer due to the ignorance and influence that the church has had throughout history?

Im sorry but that is how I feel about the state of the church and the imported made up(or weave of stolen traditions) religion people are calling "christiantiy" these days.

You go into a church and you will see numeous holidays perverted to fit the bill of christianity, when not too long ago they were burning others for celebrating these days sacred holidays.

SO the church as it exists today is a jumble of pagan holidays(once outlawed by the church), and a Roman literalization of what was once a metaphorical, almost alchemical line of knowledge...can we even call this "christianity"?..

If you want to just be a "happy christian"..then suck it up and be one I guess. If you dont like being fooled and want to know the truth about something than dig a little deeper.

Yeah I was raised Catholic - had to go to church every week till I was like 12 - 12 years of the same regurgitated sermons and pointless rituals. I feel now how I felt about it then - it was pretty much a awaste of time.

That said, I think some of the stories can be be good moral lessons, when taken as analogies. Christianity shares the same basic ethics and morality as many other religions. Sure, it is not as advanced as Buddhism, say, and it has been used by rotten leaders to dominate, slaughter and maim throughout history, but still.

I think the problem is not the religion itself, it is men that highjack it - any preacher can twist things their way - and if they happen to be quite charismatic, then people will do their bidding (look at the Westboro Baptist Church).

I think religion can do good things for some people, but in a large part it does little else than fuel the fires of hate, and division.

No God, I would ever wish to believe in, would ever want that...

Most of these real 'manic' christians don't stay that way forever. It's usually a temporary thing, happening in early adolescence that lasts for 5 years. Later in life they often distance themselves from this extremism.

I don't know if it's realy a clinical phenomenon like schizophrenia, but in many ways it definately looks like some sort of syndrome.

Let's call it MARS: MAnic Religiousness Syndrome.

The truthful fact is this ( if you have any belief in the law of attraction!):

>>You cannot possibly be a "simple happy Christian", because being a Christian these days is complicated and filled with "issues". These problems attract like problems. Simply put negativity attracts negativity. It CANNOT therefore attract anything positive, because Christianity works against the natural flow of life, and always has......Suffering is guaranteed!

Great threat!
I would love to see the world free of religions.
Christian religion is dangerous. It turns people into sheep.

Some people yes, but don't generalize that please. It's just your point of view.

I seriously dislike the dissing of christianity on this board. Religion is something someone chooses for themselves, and to talk badly about such matter is no better than being a man of religion who is dissing another religion.

Most religions turn people into sheep.Its very sad especially when its your parents that have become the sheep and you cant do anything to help them.