Ayahuasca diets are completely arbitrary, just like the sex rule, and there is definitely no consensus amongst indigenous people, this is a common misunderstanding that westerners have, once again an idealization of amazonian 'shamanism'.

For some people there should be no alcohol involved for weeks, for other groups alcohol is involved DURING the ayahuasca ritual. For some, there will be no coca products ever, for others they will chew freebased coca leaf powdered DURING the ayahuasca ritual. For some, there will be no animal products at all, for others some animal products are fine. For some there will be no sex, for others there will be sex orgies during, Etc etc etc etc etc.... So who's right and who's wrong? Or is the "spirit world" so contradictory that it transforms to whatever you believe in?

Also you didnt answer my questions regarding sex without orgasm, as well as sexual visions and subsequent sexual excitement during an experience.

And yes olympus mon, good post

do you know where can i contact these tribes, fractal? Do they have a phone number or something? Can i sign-up somewhere?

it isn't an aya diet, like i said, it is a sorcery diet and is common in conjunction with practices of many types

it has nothing to do with the aya itself, who ever said it did?

a sorcery diet? I dunno man..I studied magick, witchcraft and religion at college and I never heard of anything called a "sorcery diet"..sorcery is definatily not a new world thing in relation to the etymology of the word, and the old world occult history is filled with fertility cults and rites..and you cant refer to people like crowley for instance if you wish to get a realistic picture of the old world pagan magickal practices. Crowley misinterpreted alot of things IMO and made alot of his own stuff up..alot of crowley's work is more in line with chaos magick than it is with anything ancestrial. I have studied traditional witchcraft as much as I possibly could, along with nordic seid practices and some druidic witchcraft/shamanistic practices..and I have never heard of a sort of sorcery diet that is prescribed across the borad that includes no sex. Traditional witchcraft for instance(which is NOT wicca) is something that is practiced according to the practioner and there is no set rules..the whole idea witches acknowledging moon cycles and such is also misunderstoof and from what I understand alot of them did not even do that..it was all an eclectic individual based practice..of course there is some cultural aspects that remain inherant in say norse seid practices compared to those of s druidic priest..

Some people might abstain from sex..but there are countless examples throughout europe of fertility cults who all practice magical forms of sex.

Thank you very much for discussing the topic. I have been researching for a long time, constantly solving what and why such tasks are important before the ceremony. I can hardly eat anything, I suffer from hunger before I can take aya. I don't know how to cook, my only restaurant serves vegan food but not everything there is healthy according to the dietary norm. And yes another problem is mentioned here...sex.
We don't have to have sex before the ceremony. But the problem is masturbation, if someone has a higher need, even three days is too much for his person. Someone requests additional days after the ceremony. Two days is fine. Yes, I mean reaching orgasm.

There are specific guidelines for specific aims. For tripping balls, there are no restrictions.

There is no reality as in all the "traditional" sources are pure or have the same aims.

Independent of "shamanic" plant medicine work, any true healing, transformation process requires disciplined conscious use of sexual energy at the very least (in exceptional cases where sexual energy is engaged), and most of the time requires full on sublimation.

How did I get to believe this? A decade and a half of experiential data through dedicated healing work with the plants.

Not to say that disciplining the bodily desires is easy. The irony is that the deepest sexual satisfaction can only be achieved with discipline.

Having sex with someone you share a deep spiritual connection with, can be an incredibly profound and cosmic experience. It can be a truly spiritual, healing, or, i dare say, even sacred experience as well.

Uktimately, sex is a manifestation of love. That's what sex in it's truest form is.

I know that it can also be other, less wonderfull things. A commodity product, a power tool, a currency, a disposable good. But it doesn't have to be.

I'll just share this as my participation in the dicusiion.

One love

BTW, I was not getting into judgements of right vs wrong. That's another domain. What I am saying is that every specific thing has its own specific requirements. You can't pretend to have water by combining two hydrogen atoms with two oxygen atoms (H2O2). Water requires two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, period.

But why? What reasons compel you to feel this way. I'm of the camp that it's about how you use and/or do something. Sex can be a highly spiritual act. It can also be raunchy.

All the same, I think dose plays a role in all of this as well, which not much has been mentioned about...

One love

Thank you for sharing about your experience and perspective. I'd like to unpack this with you a bit, and I hope it's okay.



Is it possible that there is more than one "right way?" Is it also possible that there were things that are true or pertinent that you were not taught or informed of for whatever reason? Does something being done the same way for long periods of time make it seem more relavent and authentic to you? Is it possible that there are "truths" to be found that you weren't informed of? So you find sex in it's totality to be disrespectful?



What is your perspective on sex?



Can sex not be a kind of reset? Is it possible by having psychedelic sex one is strengthening the effects of said reset?



Is it not possible that while under the psychedelic influence, individuals can enrich said spiritual union and connection? Can sex not be a healing activity in and of itself?

And I don't think most of us are saying that it needs to be done.



There seems to be a stance of aya being more "sacred," "special," or "important" than other entheogens. Is this accurate? If so, is this not simply a subjective stance and a personal preference and perspective? What precludes aya from being used recreationally like mushrooms or cacti?

So, you'd feel the same if the context shifted to people being on a microdose or light dose of aya?



If this individual views their position on sex as a problem then I tend to agree with you. However sex and sex drives are complicated. There's no telling what kind of libido this individual has, nor if they are just lacking in the confidence that they can do without, say if it's habitual for them to have sex; it may be hard to imagine going without it because they're so used to it, when they very well may be able to go without.

I'm gonna go smoalk some harmalas and meditate now

One love

P.S. I'm not sure if you have already, but I encourage you to read some of endlessness's posts in this topic

I wish I had the urge to have sex while under the influence of Psychedelics. I find that I would much rather stare at a moss covered rock and watch it breathe than to get freaky with someone. I had sex on LSD once with an ex girlfriend and we couldn't stop laughing at the concept of a meat stick entering a meat hole. It could have been that we were young and too hung up on the concept of sex rather than embracing each other fully. Out of my hundreds of mushroom and LSD trips I have never had the desire to have intercourse. BUT one time I masturbated in the woods on LSD and it was the most insane orgasm I've ever had. I even had to call a friend and tel them about it.

I find that on the come down or after the experience I get horny, but that's it. Maybe Aya would be different if it was a pharmahuasca with less of that body feeling you'd get from Chacruna leaves. That's just speculation though.

I would find it dizzying to try and have sex while hallucinations were overwhelming me. Just my opinion!

I unfortunately can't respond as fully as I'd like at the moment because I have to leave for work.

However, I am wondering, how much would perspectives in this matter change if we were to change our rhetoric? Such as reframing terms such as "getting laid," or "horniness," etc. In my experience, more often than not, psychedelic sex has nothing to do with these kinds of ideas and the prose on sex they project. It's an entirely different stance, even with different goals mind. It's more in the veins of heartfelt lovemaking and union. It's something that doesn't really even possess hedonism. The physical pleasure is merely a bonus. I also tend to experience a deepening of the psychedelic experience thereafter.

Just some ideas.

One love

I can't say anything as per ayahuasca but being naked with someone while in the process of being mentally undressed by a psychedelic drug is pretty damned intense. If you can do it and profit from it, i don't see anything that takes away from a spiritual experience. It's a union. But my experiences match those of widderic. When i have tried to do it there has too much other stuff going on in my head and i would end up going off on tangents. But, yeah, i was very young at the times of doing and mostly we'd end up just lying naked in each others arms, talking crap and giggling.
I have never really thought about sexy times while tripping but if you can have profitable sex while in the zone, more power to you.

The respect mentioned here is about respecting the actual, real energetic process, which people have described as being powerfully engaged in inner work independent from outer (sexual) engagements.

Aya is a great teacher of respecting the energetic process in the moment. And after aya, I am not able to play around with any psychedelic anymore. Play, sexual engagement (playful or not) etc do have a place and time. Perhaps it can be time for it in an aya ceremony but given the nature of the experience, it would be very rare.

We cannot bend reality to the will of our egos. Some forces are wild, divine etc and we are the ones who have to surrender to them. For our own good.

I don't have any problem that needs treatment. Aya is a cleanse for me, I like to follow a diet even if I write that I don't know what to eat. I eat rice, potatoes, carrots, cucumber, apple, bananas.

3 days without sex is a problem, I have to settle only for sex. Even if I don't want to, my body reminds me again and again. I go to the ceremony, everything is fine but... when I start drinking Aya, I get a strong erection for the first time in a while. It goes away and calms down. But in the morning, people like to hug. The problem with the girl, because she hugged me and I got an erection again.

I have some experience with Aya, but as others write here, it hasn't changed this problem for me. I don't know if it can be changed, how to use this energy properly. Media, newspapers say it's healthy, masturbation every day or every other day. It's hard to say it's a problem when it works.

That's very good. I don't know this. I used to go to parties. I've had sex on LSD with a girlfriend and the laughing sensation was always after or before. Psychedelics like LSD, PCP are very strong or other similar drugs. After taking LSD at a party, it always lasts about three hours, then a strong high again. Yes, it's extreme, it's not enough just to think about something else. Believe me, I've tried it. On the morning of the party, I always have to go to the toilet. I don't want anyone to see this.

Nobody told me, nobody explained why there's so very much sperm on LSD? A really large amount of ejaculate even if the night before a man has sex and shouldn't be interested or should have a small amount. Has anyone figured out why that much is produced?
I always feel like a porn actor.

But with Aya, it's annoying. Yes, I can stand the ceremony. I made it through three nights, everything was fine. I was tired. I got out of the rainforest but got to the hostel, had a shower and couldn't stand it. I had to do it after Aya, I couldn't wait another three days after the ceremonies. The problem is also is to leak semen out at night (pollution) in your sleep. if you know. You wake up and you're wet.

I appreciate your open-mindedness and thoughtfulness here, as I know you've really really engaged with aya.

I also agree with the above. In the instances I previously described, it wasn't planned or anything. It was spontaneous and organic in its occurrence. I will say also, that for me, though engaged with someone else, I am still very deep in my personal experience, and that said, lovemaking in this state is a different experience from sober lovemaking.



It's all good. You're not alone

One love

Thanks Voidmatrix. I also have an experience or two of sex during the effect. I much prefer and love/cherish the deeply joyful intimacy that can be achieved in the afterglow.

It's obvious imho that vomiting and feeling dead sick is not a fine base for it, unless one has a fetish needing that as an exception. But come down & afterglow is another matter all together.

I remember during one of my first aya ceremonies I felt at a fork of allowing libido energy in the proces or not (meaning no acting, just allowing the feelings on itself), I decided to not, it was a traditional aya set/setting and I opted for max traditional format. Later in the process I got true ahum 'healing' of an extreme devastating kind. I could not rid the idea that this level was because of the tuning set out before.

I am against the idea that I paid respect to a spirit, or that doing things differently is disrespectful to spirit (whatever spirit means is a can of worm in its own right). I just made a choice of managing/focusing attention, no more.

The words respect, spirit, sacred etc are container words that seem to be self explanatory and self evident but they aren't imho at all. They sniff dogma, just try to define it. They are killer words even in the literal sense.

Later in less traditional practices, outside the nausea frame, I did allow gradually libido feelings (no acting) in the process and this never felt wrong. It even felt an ally, a backbone, a solace, a haven, a rudder, a powerstance, a compass in sometimes bewildered states.

Later I started to introduce gradually acting under the influences but the fear was I would make for a ver stupid impression coming into an inhabited realm with pants down & dripping. Fear for being at a laughing stock in that realm. Suppose you're at a party and someone busts in like that.

I've found, so far, the realm does understand better than we might give them/it credit for. But I keep feeling once introducing libido energy, it goes effectively that route at the cost of different routes, so a choice.