My experience has been almost the opposite of Snozz’s. Lower doses of sublingual harmalas (let’s say 75mg or less) produce no nausea at all. Higher doses (I’ve only gone as high as about 100mg sublingually) can cause nausea. Oral harmalas, even with fairly low doses (less than 175mg) cause distracting nausea. (I'm sure I'd be violently ill for a long time if I took 400mg oral harmalas!)

Higher dose sublingual harmalas don’t seem to add much for me – anything over 25mg or so is overkill. In fact, with higher doses, it seems that the harmalas predominate to the point where higher doses of DMT are needed for breakthrough. I haven’t experimented with this much, so I can’t provide any numbers.

I find sublingual harmalas combined with a sub-breakthrough or light breakthrough dose of DMT to be very similar to pharma, but much shorter – for me, 45 minutes vs. 6+ hours. Sublingual harmalas will not inhibit MAO in the digestive system, so they aren’t effective with oral DMT.

Oddly enough, I’ve never tried vaporized DMT with oral harmalas.

The TEK that is the topic of this thread - look at post #1.

Ooops
Silly Me, entered the thread and forgot....

DUH

Thanks alot!

Has anyone here anything to say to compare the effects of oral vs sublingual harmalas with vaporized DMT?

They both work well.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. But is there any reason to "waste" freebase caapi if the oral ingestion takes larger amount for the same effects?
So is there a change in duration or difference in the journey in general?

With smoked and subligual harmalas, it's pretty easy to over-do it and get some rather unpleasant side effects eg nausea, headache, etc..

With oral harmalas, even though it takes a bit more, there is no real "unpleasantness" about it. The moar you take, the deeper you go. Also, the duration will be much longer with the oral route because it will take longer for your system to process it all.

I love taking oral harmalas. They just feel good for you.

But basically the effect is the same on vaped D?

I wouldn't be a good judge of that because I haven't really vaped much spice with sublingual harmalas. The fact that you can over-do it and the bitter taste of harmalas doesn't appeal to me.

200mg of reasonably pure harmalas and I'm feeling righteous on it's own. You can't get that same feeling with sub/vaped harmalas before you start feeling side effects. As the saying goes... Ayahuasca is the cave you explore and spice is the torch that lights your way.

You should try each method and let us know which works best for you.

I find the caapi extract made with this tek and sodium carbonate has no taste at all. And I've tried it couple times with about 25mg and it gives mild effect on it's own...

I would try oral harmalas prior to vaping, but due to the fact that I don't have much caapi extract, currently I cannot try it.
On the other hand sublingual harmalas works so nicely on spice that I don't know how oral harmalas would top it!

Harmala salts are extremely bitter, but harmala freebase is not bitter at all. No taste whatsoever.

People keep saying how sublingual harmalas cause nausea and oral doesn’t – this just hasn’t been my experience. At effective sublingual doses, there isn’t the slightest bit of nausea. I’ve taken near-oral sized doses sublingually, and then there is nausea, but an effective sublingual dose is much smaller: 10-25mg is quite effective. I’ve even had noticeable effects with as little as 5mg sublingually.

I always thought that aya/pharma caused nausea (and with aya in particular, vomiting and even diarrhea). There are plenty of posts here on the Nexus seeking advice on how to combat the nausea. With aya, nausea and vomiting (la Purga?) are often not only expected, but desired! Everywhere I look, there’s talk of nausea associated with both aya and pharma, and now people are suddenly claiming that pharma doesn’t cause nausea!? 200mg of oral harmalas will cause distracting nausea for me. Intermittent, but quite distracting when present. 300mg of oral harmalas will cause almost nonstop nausea for 6+ hours. I haven’t tried more than that because of the nausea. Is my physiology unusual? I always assumed that higher doses of oral harmalas (250mg and more) can cause nausea and even purging. Is this incorrect?

With sublingual harmalas at doses under 75mg, I’ve never had even the slightest bit of nausea or any other “side effects”. And as I already noted, an effective sublingual dose is 10-25mg. Using higher-dose oral harmalas with vaped spice seems like a huge waste of harmalas to me. If I want a caapi-only experience, then I’ll take harmalas orally. If I want to add “light”, then I’ll take DMT orally. Taking 200+ milligrams of oral harmalas just to enhance a vaped DMT experience doesn’t make much sense to me.

I agree that sublingual harmalas plus vaped spice is not a substitute for aya/pharma, but whoever thought it was? The experience is still essentially a vaped DMT experience, but with “something” extra: it’s a bit slower and easier to remember and often more “spiritual”.

So here’s my feeling on this whole subject:

(A) If you want an aya/pharma experience, then take both the harmalas and the DMT orally.

(B) If you want to boost the “light” during an aya/pharma experience, then vape some DMT during the experience or better yet, take an additional oral dose of DMT.

(C) If you want a vaped DMT experience with added harmala effects and no side-effects, then take 10-25mg harmalas sublingually and vape a dose of DMT.

(D) If you want an experience similar to (C) but with loads of nausea and other harmala side-effects, take ten times as much harmalas orally (250mg +) and vape a dose of DMT.

Interesting gibran...your experiences really are the opposite of mine with regards to roa of harmala fb...I wonder why that is.

I've never had nausea with pharma...even on my stupidly large dose there was no nausea, just the warmth of the come-up and perhaps a little stomach squirming, but not much if at all. Guess I should have spoken up before Although, with ayahuasca, I do get nausea...especially with chaliponga, but I usually purge and that takes care of that.

The first time I took 50mg of sublingual harmala fb, within 5 minutes I had plunked my ass down on the couch and was seeing the "invisible tracers" of harmalas and at the same time had gut-wrenching nausea as I have never encountered from extracted harmalas.

50mg of harmala freebase is quite a bit when trying to augment a vaped DMT experience. As I said, 10-25mg is good.

It’s strange that you can take so little sublingually and have nausea, yet take so much orally and not have nausea. Regardless of ROA, at some point the levels of harmalas in blood and brain will be higher with a higher oral dose, so I wonder what’s going on?

There was no dmt taken with the referenced administrations...all posts referencing amounts and their effects meant without dmt, except when I specifically stated I was taking pharma.

I usually like to keep my trips kind of short(less than 2-3 hour sessions), therefore I haven't tried aya or pharma.
Has anyone anything to comment on the differences between sublingual harmalas + spice vs. pharma/aya?

It's obviously longer and possibly "smoother" and maybe even easier to handle, but anything else to add?
Gibran2 mentioned non-breakthrough dose with sublingual harmalas reminded him of pharma except shorter. If this is the case I guess I could adjust the lenght of the experience with doses of vaped spice? 30min sessions at a time?

My experience resonates more with Snozz's experience. With harmalas alone, I rarely get nausea, no matter how much I take. When I add dmt into the equation, I vomit almost instantly. I've taken upwards to 350mg of harmalas at one time and got some body tremors and a general intoxicated feeling, but never any real nausea until the spice comes into play.

When smoking or taking sublingual harmalas, I get a unique headache that's always the same whenever I take too much.

It might be considered a waste to some to take massive amounts of oral harmalas, but considering how cheap it is to extract from rue, I don't consider it a waste at all. I really enjoy the feeling of taking a lot of harmalas. I always feel really clean, clear and refreshed afterward as well.

It took awhile to work up to 350mg+. I wouldn't recommend that anyone start out that high. But if you continually up the dosage, your body gets used to it and can go deeper and deeper without the unpleasant effects.

It just goes to show how our unique physiologies effect our experiences.

Caapi-only aya or pharma gives me strong nausea. I’d do pharma much more often if not for the extreme nausea.

As far as I can tell, oral DMT doesn’t seem to add to the nausea. (But of course I’ve never taken DMT orally without harmalas – who would?)

And as I said in other posts, sublingual harmalas for me produce no nausea, no headache, no unpleasantness at all.

(I understand that harmala-only journeys can be very nice. When I suggested that it was wasteful to take oral harmalas, I meant it’s wasteful if one is doing it with the primary intent of enhancing a vaporized DMT journey.)

When using sublingual harmalas prior to smoking/vaporizing DMT, I use about 10-20mg of harmalas. If you’re asking about smoked/vaporized harmalas, I can’t answer as I’ve never done that.

With sublingual harmalas and vaporized DMT, the breakthrough peak is extended very slightly, but the comedown period is extended quite a bit – up to 30-45 minutes.

A pharma experience is of course much longer: For me, anywhere from 4 hours up to 7 hours.

well, just chiming in to say thanks Gibran!

the tek works! well, ofcourse it works! it would be more correct of me to say that i managed to get the tek working! haha

i have some nice tan/light brown alkaloids drying now

Smoked/vaped harmalas should be in the same range as sublingual if taking it with DMT. By itself or with cannabis, 25-50mg seems to be a moderate dose, ime.