I think it's still wood, not a total extract, similar in a way to caapi 10x used with changa.

By the way I also tried to eat it with a smoothie/yoghurt but the best way I've found so far is to
wrap the powder in pieces of paper towel and "bomb" it. I took 25g that way this morning and
haven't felt an hint of discomfort

seems like eating is the way to go then, my friend has already cooked up 50grams of it so i guess i will bring about 30more grams and we will all share everything then

Yeah, the total lack of digestive discomfort is quite amazing, moreover considering that even LSD (in high dose) gives me nausea to some extent.

cool. using less gelcap is good idea.

Ok, so something weird happened with my last brew of the 4:1 extract.

I brewed up 20g, boiled 3 times, each time instead of filtering, I just decanted the solution off the plant matter. I might have added some fumaric acid during the brewing process but I'm not 100% sure. I then reduced the pulls to approx 5oz of liquid. I drank 2oz of the liquid that night and left the other 3oz in the fridge for a few weeks. It has just been sitting in the back of the fridge, undisturbed this whole time. When I checked it out last night, I noticed there were solids forming at the bottom of the bottle. I slowly poured out the liquid through a strainer to collect the solids and they are pretty crazy looking. Definitely not something I would want to drink on accident.

I'm not sure if this is the maltodrexin or whatever, but I feel it does pose a potential safety issue. I doubt they are toxic but the idea of getting one of these things caught in my throat does not sound appealing.

So if you brew some 4:1 and leave it sitting awhile, please strain the brew before consuming to make sure you don't choke on these guys. They look a little like clay but they are very hard and solid with specks of crystalline matter here and there.

EDIT: Thinking about this a little more, another factor here might be that I have really hard water at this house, that stinky egg water. So this might just be excess mineral deposits from my water source. Considering how much water I use and how much I reduce, it's not an impossibility.

I'll try this again in the future with bottled spring water and no fumaric acid just to see if it happens again.

Last night I drank 15g of 4:1 powder mixed into a glass of cool water. 2 hrs later I drank 40 mg spice dissolved in a splash of vinegar. I felt light harmala effects, but it was not enough to activate spice. I'd guess this stuff is slightly more active than one of my good cielo brews. I was a bit disappointed with it honestly. Effects seemed equivalent to maybe 25g good cielo or less than 100mgs rue alks. Of course it could have been a fluke, but I've gotten pretty reliable with my aya/pharma after many trials. I'll try one more time with 20+ g and then stop wasting my time and buy real vine.

I wrote this is the supplier thread but i will paste it here instead.



Me and 2friends shared 50grams of the 4x boiled for 3x3hours and then filtered, then we added 30grams of powder which we leaved in the solution.

With this i drank 5grams worth of mimosa with very little effects however Sad

I feel good today but it sucks it seems so hard to get this extract to work, also i will not be eating this powder again since it was the nastiest aya ive ever drank, if i filter the powder out it actually tastes ok.


What im now looking for is a solid recpie to get this stuff to work without digesting the powder itself, most of you seems get off with 15grams if consumed but i need to know what the minimum is without eating the stuff.

Do you guys think that perhaps you are better of just getting their regular caapi powder, and extracting off that??.

-oR Perhaps chugging down 20 grammes of 4:1 rehydrated in hot water??

Their regular caapi is also enhanced mith maltodexin (whatever it is exactly) so this wouldn't be any better as far as I remember.

@ouro, two hours seems much too long after. For me, harmala effects usually peak 1-1.5 hours in. Do you always do it two hours after?

I've had multiple weird things happen on multiple extraction of both the 4:1 and regular...I'll elaborate when I get a free minute.

Ragabr, I have had many successes drinking light 2 hours after vine or alkaloids and no failures. I don't know why but harmalas have a 2 hr come up for me ever since my first 2-3 ayas that is very very consistent. I have dosed 100-300 mgs rue alks and noticed it many times. Also, I notice when I've had a good dose of harmalas, even if they were capped, I get a very distinct taste in my mouth about 2 hrs in. I did not get this taste when I drank 15g of 4:1.

Yea, I've eaten 20-25g or so of the 4:1 and gone to work. While I did notice harmala effects, there's no way it was on par with 80g of vine....I've been thinking I might try 30g later this week.

@ouro, very interesting! I'm glad to learn about such variation, so I'll be able to give better advice in misfires.

SWIM just finished up a journey with 25g of the 4x and 42mg of DMT-fumarate. It was a nice mid-level aya journey, but definitely not 100g worth, or a factor stronger than the 15g journey of last week.

Overall, it's a little disappointing that the 4x is more marketing than anything, but the price is still amazing. It's also extremely convenient for microdosing.

PS: Does smoking harmalas significantly potentiate oral harmalas? SWIM's first attempt, with 20g of the 4x, seemed like a resounding success, but she didn't take oral DMT. She smoked changa that had a heavy amount of harmalas in it.

Did you make a brew and discard the powder or did you ingest the powder? i´m really curious about what the dosage is if i don´t eat the powder.

I have been eating 8 - 16 Double Zero capsules packed with 4:1 aya powder every night for the past 4 nights. I love it, regardless of the alleged concentration. I am not exactly sure what dosage this is other than number of capsules, I just know it feels right. Really right.
Perfect for my lazy self: No need to brew. I like taking it before dinner at night time and then just vegging out and chillen', meditating, giggling and melting until I fall asleep. I love ayahuasca sleep. My digestive system is in optimum mode...working better than it has in a long time, which is something I was skeptical about in regards to eating the powder, but I am pleasantly surprised.


Also, love-making in a golden glowing flowing jungle of the mind? Why, yes! Epic.

That's awesome House. I took a three-day break from my daily microdosing (ran out of capped doses and didn't have time to put more together). No negative effects from taking the break, urges to dose, felt in a good mood the entire time. This is 3-4 00-capsules every hour or so throughout the day.

I started again this morning, and it took till the 3rd hour to hit the point I had basically maintained since starting the experiment.

Have noticed the digestion help as well, actually.

@SHroomtroll, it was in powder, from a smoothie.

i guess i will try the capsules if i can´t get 20-25grams brewed to do the trick.

Capsules do sound like great idea to avoid the nauseating taste for me..

Tbh the taste of caapi is a big reason why i havent been doing my aya lessons lately.

I've been working on a methanol extraction on the 4x and I just finished evaporating the first pull.

100g of 4x caapi was soaked in methanol for 2 weeks. It was then decanted, filtered and evaporated yielding 6.4g of crude extract.

I intend to do an A/B on a gram of it to see how much loss there is during the cleanup process.

I'll post the results when finished.

I also believe there are more alkaloids in there. The methanol was almost black it was so saturated. I'll post the results of later pulls as well.

I ordered a kilo of the forestrx 4:1 and I somehow managed to down 15 grams of it. Spooning it made me gag as it is so dry, and it seemed to burn my throat.
I wrapped the rest of it in paper towels and bombed it down, yuck. No results felt.
I'll likely toss the other 985 grams.