this is it kids the holiest of all the canolies!..this is either ground breaking, or one of the dumbest ideas around, so i recently found out that i know someone who has a ph adjuster for water...im not sure how it works but its a fancy japanese machine and it can be used to change the properties of the water from fertilizer to antibiotic to drain cleaner and other things inbetween..so what if one were to get some water that had a ph of say 11 and water with a ph of say 2.5 (i say 2.5 cause i think thats the lowest it goes) anyways what if you could seperate the alks by just puting basic water in with your plants then seperateing the two and lowering the ph with more water?..i mean im not chemist, but thats why im asking you, what do you think>?....sounds awsome to me and if it worked it would be ready to drink, or to nebulize

sounds pointless.
automated bioreactors already do this, using peristaltic pumps and pH probes, and a multifunction DAQ interface to monitor pH while controlling the pumps. one could feasibly set up such a contraption for $500 or less, and have a more versatile solution to a variety of applications.

I'm not comprehending the logic. How does adjusting the ph separate the alkaloids from all the other plant material?

ok, my logic isnt really based on a deep knowing of how the chemistry works. i just thought the main thing you do is change the plant matter from acid to base etc .the ol' A/B and in doing that you change the properties of the molecules so that they migrate into one thing and then another so that you eventually seperate the molecules from (mostly/theoreticly) everything. one may not be able to do an entirely water based extraction as i fantasized about, but it seems like a good idea worth envestigating were one could potentially use this ph adjusted water in the extraction process, it could potentialy make things easier or even "cleaner"...to use extremly basic water instead of lye or lime etc, and simularly to use extremly acidified water instead of hcl,acetic, fumaric etc. does that hold water?

benzyme sir, you have completely lost me, but the reason im into this machine is because i already have access to one, i dont have 500$ to make an automated bioreactor...

the water gets basified because the base alkaloids are soluble in non polar solvents, like naphtha, while the rest of the plant oils generally aren't. It's the np solvent that separates the dmt from the plant water. If you still have to use a non polar solvent, then you still have to use chemicals to extract, and so this water basing method does not seem particularly useful. However, in theory, it should work, and would save one from buying and using lye. I guess that is kind of convenient, but not a great break through.

Perhaps the machine would be better for harmala extraction, in which the harmala alkaloids precipitate directly from basified water. However, I don't know much about this machine. Is there any reason to believe that the basified water produced by the machine is somehow safer than lye water? Lye is corrosive because it has such a low ph. Any water of the same ph should also be very corrosive.

Extremely acidified water is not necessary during any phase of an extraction. Fumaric acid is purposely used as a food safe method of storing dmt in solid salt form.

hmm well then, i will use it instead of lye! great job team, not saying its better than lye it just happens to be easier for me. i am also exited to try a np free harmala extraction with this modified approach :idea: (ps. i will definitly give an update about the machine once i check it out)

2.5 PH is certainly low enough for any A/B tek. In fact, most teks only call for ph of 4.

11 PH is barely basic enough, but it might work. At the very least, you could save a lot of NaOH, KOH, TSP or whatever. If you have seperation problems using this basic water, you can always slowly add spoonfulls of lye to cause it to work.

You still need a Non Polar Solvent of course.

If you can use this machine for free, go ahead and do a test. Post your results.

for this purpose, you don't necessarily need a bioreactor
just a vessel of your choice, couple peristaltic pump heads (with tubing), a cordless drill with flathead bit, and a cheap pH meter

while careful A/B titration results in relatively cleaner pulls, it does not separate the alkaloids you seek from everything else. that's what chromatography is for.

Wouldnt lye saponify the oil?

it would if the oil has a carboxylic group, like fatty acids do.
lots of plant materials do, such as cactus and grasses; which is why there's a defatting step.