Seriously like...my own personal hell. I swear to God I need to make some changes. On reflection, I think it has done me good. People have said it is the male to the vines female. I couldnt agree more. It was like a fathers punishment. The vine was so much warmer and forgiving! I didnt even have much Rue(like 3g)... basically, long story short....what happened there then?!

Yes, some people do say that rue can be harsh. In my experience, both rue and caapi are capable of showing hell, and heaven. I don't think Rue is particularly meaner.

Can you elaborate more on your experience? Was it rue only?

I dont know...I am not that experienced, but have had 5 or 6 really beautiful and warm vine (with mimosa)experiences. This was my first with Rue. The seeds were old so I wasnt expecting too much, but I was mistaken.

I had like 4 or 5g of mimosa with it (its hard to be exact, I work with spoonfuls lol). Some may say that was where I went wrong, yet I fail to see how that was a 'wrong' experience, as I have learned a lot!

Basically, it felt like I was being prodded and probed by malevolent entities, left right and centre. It felt utterly devoid of love. It was synonymous with my past foolish, childish mistakes etc. Felt utterly hopeless and for a minute or so fully suicidal. Also, it went on for FAR longer than I was expecting, or ready for tbh.

Now I feel happy and very serene, knowing I have lived to tell you this tale.
I will journey with Rue again, yet next time will approach it with the UTMOST respect lol.

I don't think it was probably the rue in specific that had that effect even though you've had other positive caapi experiences. DMT is possibly one of the most unpredictable things you'll ever encounter and just hands down you never really know what you're getting. Sounds like it recognized some issues you have to work through before things can be happy-go-lucky again.

Yea it let some subconcious, festering issues that I had forgotten about rise to the surface. Yet now, in my non-DMT mind, the issues seem minor. It was like they were eating away, subconciously, but with no real basis. But hey! I have always worried too much lol. Man I love the stuff, and am again and again in absolute awe of its power.

Ahh . . . More bad press for rue . . . Too bad, rue is a wonderful plant ally. I've had rough times with caapi but I certainly wouldn't blame the caapi (unmeasured oral DMT was the culprit).

Hey, I'm not blaming the rue. There is nothing to blame it for. Ill repeat - I value the experience greatly. It was tough love, is all Im saying.

But yes, next time less Dimitri certainly (though I didnt even have that much - the same as with the vine, when it was much smoother). Stories I hear of 20g of each beggar belief.

oh yeah, though love

i remember being nauseous for 20 hours and puking demons, but apart from that it was one of the most healing experiences in my life. Just 3g of powedered rue in capsules with some freebase dmt


ayahuasca i made in several days of cooking with several other special healing herbs was a much nicer ride, very beautiful.
The effects were not profound enough to permanently help me change my attitude/behaviour in a positive way


the good and the bad policeman, old story but one of them will always get the shit out of you

Thats so true, at least in my experience so far. I feel fully transformed now, like I have learned lessons the hard way. Its like my outlook has become much more positive, less judgmental. Also, I have gained a greater determination to meditate (I have done before, but it fell by the wayside. Now I will resume though). It showed me the true essential nature of love. Without it life really is hopeless - this I felt starkly and vividly for the first time, that hollow emptiness. I knew this before, in an abstract sense. Now I feel I fully understand it. I know I will have to work harder, andd it will take a while to integrate this. However, I hope now to be able to be a better person.

Swim took 30gm of mhrb cold water extraction with rue once.... Once...

Swim really got that paternal ass whupin your talking about. Ended up with DI psychosis for a few hours towards the end.
Told me right off the bat I was goig to deal with my fear of pain and death and Jesus did it do that. Then it started hitting me with my irresponsability with money and was going to show me how to be responsible so I could be a good father in the future. Saw amitabuddha father of all buddhas... Yah Intense... Then my head fell off my body... Met death... Became a commercial fisherman who hung himself, experienced that as well as being some one who slit their wrists in the bathroom...
Learned a lot...
Learned that no ones ever a victim. That there's a larger part of us that makes choices that we would not voluntarily make to benifit the whole, and that we have to trust that part of ourself and commune with it. Hard lessons...

I am glad that it has happened. I dont want to go on, and this may sound...well, ridiculous...but like...I never really had a dad...which somehow gave me this inflamed sense of my own importance, thus a warped view of the world. I feel like I have just recieved a lifetimes worth of fatherly discipline. When I started this thread I also had some sort of psychosis. Now it had faded, but the errors of my old thinking have become extremely apparent...in ways so significant I am kind of lost for words. Man Ive been such a fool for so long, and it only caused others around me, and myself pain.

I feel these lessons can be used very effectively in meditation, particularly the Metta Bhavna (lovingkindness)... in the 'cultivating love for oneself' stage, I can now activate that feeling straight away. its like I have become aware of love, without all the trappings/confusions that used to cloud it...apologies if I have used obscure references etc, but I'm just ... still kinda stunned lol.

I think I have only made this breakthrough, due to the extremely unpleasant nature of the experience, and for it I am thankful.

Per ardua ad astra, as they say.

yAh you will get schooled like that. It's no wonder that animists have had the corner marked on entheogens its a spiritual practice based on respect...

Animism is a new word for me, but by golly it makes sense.

Check out Graham harveys book animism

Unt
www.bioregionalanimism.com

Many thanks Dorge. I will look into this. Need all the help I can get! lol.

I think also what may have contributed to the experience of yesterday was, as I didnt treat the rue with the respect it deserves. I went in thinking it was lesser than the vine, this didnt speak intentions, didnt tidy my room before taking it, and didnt do many other things I usually would do with caapi (eat sparingly and healthily for a few days leading up to it, for example). Another lesson learned.

did you brew the rue and then drink it that day or the next day? I find that will make you sicker which will add to discomfort and can make your trip more negative durring the peak. I brew rue and filter it, and then leave it int he fridge for like 5 days and then decant it so that there is not seed sediments floating around. I just brew up like 40g at a time that way becasue it will last months in the fridge if not longer.

Well it didn't make me sick as such... not out the mouth anyway. In a way maybe thats what screwed me. I have a history of heavy opiates (was addicted to heroin and methadone for 2 years like 4 years ago), which has allowed me to cope extremely well with resisting purge. When I finally did purge, in the toilet, it all started to be OK. It was like, when people say to just let go and purge, I just couldnt. Maybe if I had it would have been OK, and wouldnt have dragged on so torturously.

But I still have some rue brew left in the fridge. I plan on one more (lighter) dose next week before I go away for a week, so hopefully it would have decanted by then.

Seriously though, I am well aware this could have been any number of factors. I think mainly I was slipping back down the familiar slope into recklesness, and this was just a wake up call. Also, I think it is to be just as revered as caapi, which is something that I had neglected to recognise (mayeb as the seed I got were free, they are cheaper etc - blooming capitalism!).

Really I just think I overshot my sweet spot, and acted the goat, ignoring good advice to an extent by good people such as yourself Fractal (ie. start with maybe 1g in a brew etc). Silly me!

Still, lesson learned!

Again though, I have never purged from caapi from, ahem...either end...despite having crazy tracers and spiderwebs for like 8 hours. So, I just need to practice my technique with rue I think.