Hello everyone,

I would like to take this opportunity to pass on a letter that I received from a friend of mine regarding a horrific experience he had after smoking while taking the antibiotic Amoxecillin. From his experience report it can be safely concluded that dosing with changa while on Amoxicillin is very dangerous and should not be attempted by anyone, anywhere, at any time.

"
Experience Report

Near Hospitalization Following Dose of 0.030g Changa (1:1) While on Antibiotic Amoxicillin.

DMT Dosage: 0.030g basic caapi/DMT changa mix
Antibiotic: Amoxicillin 500mg taken 3 times daily.
Time: 10:45pm

Timeline:

1025: Begin listening to brain entrainment track
1045: Dose with changa
1100: fall asleep
1200: Wake up, take antibiotic
0400: Wake up with symptoms...

Report

At 0400 I awoke in a state of dizziness. Shortly there after, I developed high fever accompanied by sweating, shaking, nausea, and pain all over body. The symptoms increased in intensity as I lay in the fetal position in sever pain until 0700, at which point, fearing the worst, had to make a phone call to my sitter to come and watch over me. Over the course of the next 24 hours, symptoms worsened to include extreme nausea and vomiting, whole body pain, chills, shaking, sever sweating. I thought I was on the verge of dying, but still refused to go to the hospital. After that first 24 hour period, symptoms began to subside and I was able to eat and drink, while experiencing flu symptoms.

I cannot warn strongly enough that, had my changa dosage been higher, I fear I may have needed to be hospitalized. DO NOT MIX CAAPI/DMT CHNAGE WITH AMOXICILLIN!!!!!!!!!

"

Thanks for the heads up. Sorry your friend had to go through that

I hope they are feeling better now with no long term damage.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to you and your friend.

I very much sympathise with the awfulness of having to wait powerlessly while an allergic reaction takes its own course, not knowing how serious it will turn out to be.

Well done for posting this though - I'm not sure if this is a well known contraindication.

Take it really easy while your friend's body recuperates.

Amoxicillin has no adverse interaction with MAOIs of type A or B; the 4 hour delay between onset of the adverse effects and the use of changa also goes against any such link.

Why is your friend on amoxicillin?

Are they on any other meds including over the counter preps?

The symptoms he/she experienced sound much more infective than allergic/adverse interaction.

Antibiotics can have these nasty sideeffects

Yeah I've felt like that the last time I took antibiotics for a nasty staph infection, no changa was involved.

After you get better and get off the anti biotics, load up on probiotics!!

Agree with house from personal experience...
Though swim would like to mention that cipro the antibiotic, is an isoquinoline with some psychoactive effects; should be avoided w/changa. Swim suggests that most medications should be avoided with changa... Better safe then sorry.

I developed several stomach conditions after taking penicillin and other antibiotics for bad infections in both of my legs. I know first hand how terrible these antibiotics can be. I would advise you to stop taking these medications as soon as you possibly can. These symptoms might only be a warning now, but with continued antibiotic use you could cause long term damage to your digestive system.

It's a potentially grave error to advise people to stop taking medicines they have been prescribed by licensed doctors. Instead (and let's hope this is what you mean) the advice, in the case of what seems to be unexpected negative reactions to medicines, to immediately discontinue the medicines and REPORT TO YOUR DOCTOR about the experience, should be followed.

Antibiotics DO and HAVE successfully treated infections that would have KILLED the patient if he had used any other known treatment OTHER than the antibiotics--or no treatment at all. There can be NO QUESTION, from a broad, informed, historical perspective, that antibiotics on the whole have been one of the GREATEST SUCCESSES of modern medicine--indeed have almost DEFINED the inception of the period referred to as "modern medicine."

That being said, yes, of course, there can be serious side effects from antibiotics--as there can from almost ANY foreign substance taken into the body, including many common foods. Side effects need to be RECOGNIZED and DEALT WITH--usually by changing medicines or treatment method--and NOT used as a reason to dismiss all modern methods of treatment. Where are you from that you don't (seem) to know that?

Maxzar, I took alot of antibiotics as a kid as well due to chronic ear infections and sinus infections..that later I was told by another doctor were most likely due to allergies I was born with to dairy and bovine products in general, that had me run down and created other complications. I remember taking anti-biotics all the time. Later on in life I developed serious digestion problems along with IBD(inflamatory bowel disease) that fucked me up good..and I suspect that was due in part to anti-biotics destroying my gut flora.I was just a kid so I did not know shit but noone told my mother to load me up on pro-biotics after anti-biotic treatments. I have spoken with others that had one problem fixed with anti-biotics only to end up with other gut problems afterwords..

I am not against anti biotics..some herbs are even mild antibiotics..and sometimes people need to take anti-biotics..I think it is probly good for people to understand how gut flora is effected though by anti-biotics and supplement durring the times when or after they take them.

To the OP, I dunno what the half life of harmalas are exactly when smoked..but I dont know how much of an effect it will have on something you take an hour after smoking changa..for me smoking harmalas does not last that long and caffine for instance is not potentiated at all if I take it 1 hour after. Others have pointed out there should be no interaction with that medication anyway..but it is better to be safe than sorry.

^ It is certainly correct that the constituents of gut flora have a MAJOR impact on health. That fact is becoming better known every day. Here's an article on--I'm not kidding--fecal transplants which suggests that simply transferring bowel contents between people could be a LIFE SAVING TREATMENT for desperate gut conditions where antibiotics have miserably failed.

This makes a lot of sense. It seems that the illness caught up with you.

It just sounds like your friend's body is trying desperately to heal itself. Tripping can be an extremely energy-taxing endeavor... I would personally wait until my body was not expending extra resources to heal to smoke. It's just not worth it, intensified symptoms or dangerous drug interactions, better just to wait.

Your patience will be rewarded.

In any case, glad your friend is okay now. Take it easy.