So SWIM is interested in the much talked about Changa, unfortunately Swim lives in a mirror world of Earth in a mirror version of Australia where Caapi is not allowed to be imported, and SWIM is left without much in the way of MAOI's, althought he or she did mention he or she had some Mullein & Peppermint leaves.

SWIM wants to know just how crucial is the MAOI to the said Changa and can other more easily aquired herbs or teas actually have their part in shaping SWIM's travels of other realms.

Hi,

Well I made some changa with a passionflower extract. I'm sure you would be able to get hold of some dried passionflower leaves from a homeopathic pharmacy or health store.

Its pretty weak as an MAOI but if you make an extract of say 20x then it does add length and depth to the experience so its definitely worth looking into as a caapi sunstitute.

That is if your mirror world has passionflower

Well, changa was originally developed in Australia to deal with the problem of having limited access to Caapi. I think that chocobeastie might be able to help you in what to look for.

From what I understand the vine is illegal to import unless it's a live plant. If that's not the case any more people are selling cuttings of live plants to grow or trade. A lot of cuttings get passed around the corroboree forum swim would look there.

find a persian market and pcik up some peganum harmala seeds(asphand, esphand etc)..do a manske tek on them, or just make a tincture and evap it onto the other herbs..or search out caapi.

I beleive Syrian rue is illegal to import as well. Harmalas are illegal in oz

Do the russian olive trees grow over there?

I am also confronted with a similar problem. i have access to passionflower, but i have heard that it is undesireable as it is both on the weaker end of the MAOI's (however this could be negated with an enhanced extract i suppose), but also i have heard there are undesireable compounds in passionflower that make it unsuitable for smoking??

i think there is a shop in my city which also offers Syrian Rue seeds, however again i would prefer to not have to do an extraction on the seeds. The best case scenario would be acquiring some caapi leaf and then just enhancing and evaping into the desired material.



in relation to syrian rue (please excuse my noob-ness and lack of knowledge), but once the harmalas are extracted, is it correct they would then need to be converted to a freebase form to be suitable for a smokable changa mix?

also is it possible for one to draw out the alkaloids in the rue seeds with alcohol and then evap down to concentrate them into the desired plant matter? (i.e. avoiding a manske extraction)


and finally, what ratio of harmala alkaloids : dmt : leaf would one need to ensure it provides enough of a MAOI effect?



thank in advance

Just import the Caapi!

You will have AQIS heat treat it. It can take them six weeks.

I have imported so much Caapi over the years it is silly. And so have friends. (lets not go into the kilos and kilos of coca leaf...)

Really, customs don't care. They are not actively looking for this. It is very much an extremely minor and technical import. As far as I know, they are not looking at a list saying "Banisteriopsis Caapi" is prohibited. If so, ask the person shipping it to label it as "ayahuasca vine" or similar.

Harmine, which is in Caapi, is prohibited, but it comes under a TGA schedule, which is a little obscure.

Even if they find it, the worse they will do is confiscate it and send you a little letter telling you of their petty little laws!

If you buy into being a scaredy cat colonial wussbag, you deserve to be starved of Caapi and wither away into sweet caapi less oblivion! ;-)

Therefore - I am not going to sort out anyone for caapi here and support your indoctrinated wussiness! :-)

You only need a few sticks. If you are REALLY paranoid, just order 200 grams from somewhere like maya ethnobotanicals and get it sent to someone O/S and then have them send a few sticks to you in oz sent discretely without any labelling. I have been sent stuff that way which AQUIS didn't get to. So you get it quicker.

Vine makes better Changa imo. You have a nice afterglow afterwards with vine.

The sample that Trout originally tasted in OZ was JUST LEAF and that is a nice way to go. The reason why leaf was used a lot is because we could get it more easily from locally grown vines and we would rather drink the vine, but also vine was used as well - it was just that vine wasn't always around because people would drink it or want it to drink that it would go towards that. Vine leaf being used in some way, was novel and thought special. It is a nice smoke, and has all kinds of qualities and special alkaloids for sure - but for Changa, it is not necessary or better at all.

Vine AND leaf from the same plant is best imo - use 50/50 of each is what I normally like to use.

Harmala alkaloids are terrible to smoke however you go about it. WIthout the vine it just aint the same. You're selling yourself short bigtime if you don't use the vine.

Thanks for reply. I have noticed though, that most online providers say they will not ship to Australia.

As fractal enchantment mentioned, you can find persian supermarkets that stock syrian rue in australia, I found one and had a kilogram sent through COD, PM if you want more details.

It was really cheap too

Peace and happy traveling.

And also, chocobeastie, I mean no disrespect (being the creator of changa, you deserve our respect), but there always is the possibility of getting royally screwed over by the feds for importing caapi into Australia... From what I gather from the corroboree forum at shamanis australis, harmine is classed in the same category as heroin so the punishment is the same.

Also, with the shitty oz laws, 1kg of caapi is considered equal to 1kg of harmine which is treated legally the same as 1 kg of heroin! As you said, most likely, caapi will get through but it's good to know the consequences if you decide to import and luck ends up working against you.

Peace and happy traveling

With all due respect, such posts on Shaman Australis are just fear mongering, from one person who studies the law to the letter in a rather pedantic and unrealistic way.

In the real world, the WORSE they will ever do is send you a letter, like I said. This has happened to me (and it was with other plant materials) never caapi.

Do you think they really want to spend money putting people in jail who important plants? This is ridiculous.

If you get a letter, they are giving you a warning - in that case, just have packages sent to another person. c'mon guys, get a grip, I am familiar with the Ausrtralian scene backwards and forwards. Grow some balls! With balls you will find yourself having balls and a bit of cleverness with find yourself having access to all kinds of wonderful plants from the earth's garden! :-)

Some companies may not sell to Oz, but many others will. There are companies that sell vine which is powdered and sealed in foil from Peru with sanitation certificates from the government.

Also, there is a fair bit of Caapi growing in Australia. You just gotta make contact with the growers. There are a lot of them out there. Go on SAB and send some pleasant PM's. It is a no brainer.

Okay chocobeastie, I wasn't trying to discredit you, I'd just hate to see anyone on the nexus get done over for some stupid laws the aussie government have made. From reading your posts and as the inventor of changa I have nothing but respect for you and I don't want to appear like I am attacking you or saying what you have said is untrue, I trust your word on the matter, I just thought it's important to see two sides to every coin so everyone on here can make an informed decision

I hate the fact that some plants have been made illegal and it looks like more will be made illegal in the future too. As you say choco, we should have access to all kinds of wonderful plants from the earth's garden and it sucks that we should be made fearful or be labelled criminals for wanting to have access to these plants, australia has some of the most wonderful plants in the world but also one of the worst drug policies in the world

The key to ALL in Australia is standing up and taking a stand for what you believe in.

Don't be labelled criminal and be made fearful. These are not "laws", this is just pen pushing fascism beaurocracy and so should not be taken seriously!

The good thing about the amount of "laws" that customs agents have to understand is that their net is so large, that literally, they have a hard job enforcing these so called "laws". Point is, they don't know what anything is, unless you tell them what it is. For them to take it aside and figure out what it is, takes them a lot of time, that they don't have! If it isn't a white powder in good quantity they typically just can't bothered! If we are talking about a few sticks of vine, they are not going to be looking at that and thinking that = "drugs". (which it doesn't anyway)

Even in places like Scandanavia where the laws are harsh, people order Ayahuasca ingrediants, but seperately. Many people in Australia order Mimosa Hostilis root bark as well. Personally, I would be *much* more reticent to do that as DMT is definitely a controlled substance and they would have that on their computer. Even then, I don't know anyone who hasn't gotten their MHRB! AND, like I said, the worst that could happen is a letter UNLESS you were ordering dozens of kilos and EVEN THEN I know people who have done that with DMT containing plants and they just confiscate your plant materials. There is an element of common sense in the madness of the complexity of these laws. It is left to the people on the ground, enforcing these laws how to proceed. Typically, they don't want to create more work for themselves than they have to.

I am not recommending breaking the "law", I am recommending you access very special plant medicine anyway you can!

Well put chocobeastie, that is something I can get behind!

Your last post definitely made some good points and provided me with much food for thought

Peace and happy traveling to all!