Hello all, I come to you all with this question....Well, for a little backstory, I was the world's most disgusting drug addict for like 12 years, totally hooked on misery, willingly walking into a world of homelessness and dysfunction. I am 26 now, finally 2 years away from the narcotic nightmare that had had a chokehold on my life up until that point. I have been on Suboxone (a mixture of buprenorphine and naloxone) for these 2 years, only indulging in marijuana and psychdelic substances otherwise. Well, a few years ago, the makers of this opiate-replacement were touting the effects of the drug, remarking at how insignificant the withdrawl symptoms were. While I agree on the beauty of a substance that can help this much, here we are years later, with medical reports stating that this is harder to get off of than methadone (I had tried to kick a 90mg methadone habit cold-turkey one time by getting on a bus headed to portland, oregon...17 days of absolute pain and insanity until I gave up...first guy I asked happened to be a dealer...synchronicity?) Based on the sheer horror of the methadone kick, which includes headaches, fever, sweats, pain, insomnia, dehydration, acute-agitation, extreme lethargy, auditory hallucinations, sleep paralysis, and absolute madness, I am somewhat concerned about my situation.

I have been on a free government program to get this medicine ($500per bottle otherwise...I require 3 bottles per month), and unfortunately, my year has run out. There is a chance my doc will get me an extra year, but I am assuming not, since I remember reading it was a one-year program only. I know it will not be as bad as the methadone kick in terms of psychological torture, and though I have been through withdrawl roughly 300-400 times in the past 10 yrs (more time sick than high), I wont lie, I'm worried. I have learned a world of knowledge since those times (including a year of dmt use,extraction, hyperspace travel, ego death, etc.), and during one of my anxious worryings, it was as if a voice literally POPPED into my head, and suggested that in the course of withdrawl, to dose with harmalas in order to impart a complex lesson of addiction, obsession, and Need, as well as to aid with the physical trauma and to calm the nerves. What was strange was how telepathic this voice seemed, I would not have thought of this on my own...I totally would have considered DMT to help before the harmalas, but now that I think of it, harmalas have always brought WAVES of meaning into my dmt experiences, as opposed to the sheer alien confusion of dmt alone...This aspect could definitely help with the mental and emotional self-battering one goes through during the throes of withdrawl.

In conclusion, and in my opinion, this sounds like a pretty solid theory, and I'd like others here on the Nexus to add their thoughts, questions, and criticisms as well...I am close to running out of pills, and will probably attempt this method, considering there aren't many other options. Thanks guy, I appreciate all of your words...

There might be some relevant info in the paper I attached here. I think there may be some other papers with similar discussion, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

I would make damn sure that when you take the harmalas that there will be no negative interactions from the lingering opiates in your system. I would also think that you might need a few initial gaint doses of harmalas to innitiate such treatments in a similar way to how iboga is used..that said do you have no way at all to obtain iboga?

I wish you the best of luck..just please be very aware of any possible interactions that could take place. I get from your post that you have already taken harmalas with these opiates though and been okay?

Harmala alkaloids can attenuate SOME of the features of withdrawal in morphine-habituated rats when withdrawal is precipitated by naloxone but Im not sure that they would do much to make the rattle significantly easier in humans.

To the OP- I think you misunderstand where your real difficulties lie in the process of getting clean.I may be wrong ,but the impression I get from your post is that you havent been free of some kind of opioid stimulation for longer than a few days at most, and your present state, whilst not the 'narcotic nightmare' you describe, is still slavery with a more civilized face on it.

As most who have had a liking for poppy juice et al would agree, the withdrawal period is exceedingly hard to endure but most would have done it more times than they care to recall.The real battle which defeats most users repeatedly is the staying off of these chemicals.

The hardest way to quit is a straight cold turkey with no chemical help at all but this, if done successfully, leaves the most enduring desire to never treat opiates in the way youve thus far done.It takes some mental preparation to get your head in the right place for coping with whats to come (rattle, life after the rattle) and if you really do wish to leave these drugs behind, it is not impossible.But anything to take the edge off the process of withdrawing is certainly welcome.IMO the following are incredibly useful things to have close to hand:

1.Benzodiazepines- they have some handy anxiolytic and anti-nausea properties, but, IME, you are not going to get a decent few hours sleep no matter what doses you take.Be wary, as these too can be habit-forming if use goes on beyond the first week.

2.Pregabalin or Gabapentin- excellent for the restless legs.

3.Other opioids- for example, if you are quitting bupe/heroin/oxy, having some codeine or dihydrocodeine can really help if used in fairly small doses at days 2-4; the overwhelming feeling of emptyness is definitely smoothed out a little by these without retarding the process of withdrawal significantly.Again, best used for a couple of days at the peak of the nastiness.

5.Lofexidine and clonidine-the hot and cold flushes resulting in part from cental increased noradrenergic activity are eased by these, but some find they make them too dizzy to even stand up.Others are less impressed with these drugs but they do have some effect.


6.Loperamide for the diarrhoea-note codeine and dihydrocodeine will also do this nicely.


7.Tramadol- whilst relatively useless as a replacement for strong mu agonists, it can really help ameliorate the process of withdrawal.

8.Ibuprofen- Im not impressed with this, but some feel it can help the febrile feelings.


The above meds can really make withdrawal not too taxing at all, when combined properly but this requires a thorough knowledge of the different interactions between the many possible combinations and means alot more than just taking some of this and some of that.Alot of these meds when combined give a more than additive effect and this can be hazardous with respect to ending up aspirating on your own vomit if your drowsy enough to not wake up in time.

The mental attitude is key here.For those in the 'narcotic nightmare' it usually means changing your whole life in some fundamental ways.If youve managed to stabilise and change your life by going onto some kind of maintenance therapy then you should find the process not quite as demanding, as the crux of the work has already been done.But its important to be be prepared for a minimum of some weeks to quite possibly many months of whats known as PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) where general apathy, lassitude and depression just persist.Some users of buprenorphine feel that the PAWS with this compound is really quite long-lasting.

Lastly, no post on this topic would be complete without mentioning ibogaine.I have no experience personally of using this for the purpose of withdrawal, but I think if you want 'insights' into your motivations for the life youve lived so far, then this would by all accounts be the weapon of choice.

Hi tobecomeone00,

It's true that subutex(suboxone) is very hard to get off. It's because buprenorphine is very potent at small doses, withdrawal is long and Naloxone in it as opiate antagonist is a problem too. I would recommend to do some study on net before you start, plus there are many reports from people who went through it successfully. Personally I'll be scared to dose harmalas when opiates are still in. Specially synthetics like buprenorphine. I read that Methadone + MAOI is big NO. Could kill.
Kratom works well for withdrawals from methadone. When you on small doses at the end of the course, you switch to kratom for a while.
Where I live there is a 6 week clinic program for people who wants to get off methadone or subutex. First you taper down to 20mg of methadone yourself, rest is done in 6 weeks in hospital. Maybe they offer that in your clinic too. Iboga treatment is an option, but I know nothing about that, only that it's costly. If you have lots of money,rapid detox treatment is an option too, check that out on net.

I wish you luck.
Regards.

Why not try iboga. It's not as rough as some say it is. Iboga is known to be effective against all kinds of addiction, but especially against opiate addictions.

Besides that it's a great experience.

Where could I attain this Iboga you guys are talkin about? Yeah, its gonna be rough, but I really have no choice...It sucks too, cuz Suboxone doesn't even really get you high, due to the 'ceiling-effect', it just keeps one not sick, so in essence, the withdrawl will be a bit confusing, not knowing exactly what I want or need....When one does H, they expect and anticipate withdrawl...honestly, the idea of withdrawl has been out of my mind for 2 years now...I am going to see my doc, and see what he can help with...and to answer the question, I've been taking high-doses of suboxone each day (morning), and using harmalas and dmt for a while now, with no adverse effects...I think the MAOI diet danger worries that are going around are really over-exaggerated, I see a lot more worry, than actual negative occurences regarding MAOis...not to say it can't be totally dangerous, but so can a pelican....but it usually doesn't swoop down and peck your eyes out, unless you're throwing rocks...so in essence, if one stays within the confines of common-sense and safety, they shouldn't have too much to worry about...

There are several places that sell iboga. Ibogaworld, cerberus and reset.nu are two vendors with a good reputation and they will be offering all the information you ask for as well.