Having witnessed the awesome power of the spice in the GVG at a dose 10mg lower (40mg) than my usual one I am wondering what people’s average dose is using vapour pipes.

If anyone fancies elaborating on previous dose using conventional technology and/or a variety of doses using a vapour pipe to reach different states I would be interested to find this out too.

I haven’t added my average dose yet, as this would be based on only two goes, one which was a misfire (30mg, torch ran out of gas), and a 40mg dose which presented me with the most extreme psychedelic experience of my life (based on 19 years working with psychedelics, and 3 years with spice).

Thanks!

SWIM started out with a Machine, needing 30-35mg to break through consistently. With the GVG she has broken through in the past with 15-20mg, though now she almost always uses changa and so doesn't weigh it out.

Before using the GVG I experimented with a variety of devices. The most successful was a “modified machine” – a mini-bong with a copper mesh disc over the bowl.

The problem wasn’t so much one of dose size as it was of consistency: Depending on how much got burned, how much ran down the stem, etc. I might get anything from no effects at all to an uncomfortably strong breakthrough. After a few “surprise” breakthroughs, I decided to use the same dose size all the time and just hope or the best.

Pre-GVG, my typical dose was maybe 30-35mg. But as I said, sometimes 35mg might not produce any effects at all (hard to get effects when your whole dose just flowed down the stem of your mini-bong). Breakthroughs were infrequent. The inconsistency also led me to a high frequency of use (high for me at least) – sometimes 3 or 4 tries per night (stopping only because my throat couldn’t take it anymore), maybe 3 or 4 nights in a row: seeking the elusive breakthrough.

Post-GVG, I’ve never used more than 28mg. (The most intense experience of my life was with 27mg.) A breakthrough is virtually guaranteed with 26mg. With 20-25mg, I may have a breakthrough and might not.

With the GVG I break through on 10-12mg. Very low indeed, but I'm happy about that - there's room to increase if ever I feel the need to. Though I've decided to work with around 15.

Actually, that amount isn’t unrealistically low.

After finishing his DMT study, Rick Strassman concluded that a dose of 0.4mg/kg DMT fumarate was probably too high, and he indicated that a dose of 0.3mg/kg might have been more reasonable.

For someone who is rather light, let’s say 125 pounds (57kg), a freebase dose of 13mg is equivalent to a fumarate dose of 0.3mg/kg.

25-30mg, single inhalation via GVG- job done!

gibran,

You've got to stop referencing Strassman's dosage range with regard to vaporization. It's just not an accurate translation. Yes, the GVG is scary efficient - the most effective vaporization tool we have. But IV is a very different method of administration, and you can't expect to achieve the same level of experience or one that is qualitatively identical to a comparable vaporized dose.

Thanks, that's good to know. I'm 165 pounds, so I think I'm taking the equivalent to a fumarate dose of 0.23mg/kg. As I mentioned in a recent report, I've tried with twice that amount and got the same intensity, so I think I'll stick to that sweetspot for now. I'm still working on attaining ego-death, and it may take a while, but I want to believe that that "level" is not dose-dependent as long as breakthrough is achieved. We'll see.

All "levels" are dose dependent. There are plenty of other factors as well, such as set and setting, malleability, diet, physical condition, etc. - but all other things being equal, of course the level of effect is going to increase in direct proportion to dose.

While what Art says is true, SWIM very rarely experiences LSD or mushroom style ego-death with DMT, at any level of dosage. I believe that gibran2 often suggests that salvia is better for ego-death experiences.

I voted 50-59 mg, but i must admit there is always some changa left (I weight 100mg a dose, 1/1 spice/admixtures) smokable in my GVG afterwards.

Art - That may be true, but it's not what I experienced recently. And I know everyone who posted here has a lot more experience than I do, but 12mg and 24mg seem to trigger the same intensity of experience for me. It felt like accessing hyperspace, simply, and hyperspace is hyperspace. I guess I need to experiment more. I did experience ego-death once on DMT, but the dose was unweighted. Salvia is a more difficult option because of the need of a sitter, and a scarier option because of the stories I've heard, though that is less of an obstacle. Ah, and on the subject of Salvia, I am rather insensitive to it, compared to DMT, though I'll have to experiment more, I hear there's a reverse tolerance.

Have just noticed maybe my numbering system was a little ill thought-out, I should have made the numbers in ranges like 11–20 and 41–50.

Oh well too late now!

So after a bit of playing I have come to the conclusion that I can generally get where I need to with 25–30mg. I’ve tried 50mg which didn’t work well and resulted in a huge spice drip in my pipe. 40mg is the highest effective dose I have had so far and that was far, far too much.

^What sort of screen did you use? If one uses copper mesh screen, it will not drip through even with high doses. I think it's the only way to vaporize spice from gvg

I use a normal pipe screen, then a metal mesh and then another on top that is slightly more bowl shaped so the crystals don’t touch the glass walls, not too different in thickness to the one Gibran uses, just with two. Normally works perfectly. I think the 50mg blast was probably a case of “shouldn’t really be smoking at the moment anyway”, so was probably lucky it just produced a drip.