I don't ferment my my own alcohol or grow tobacco.

But everything else you mentioned there (plus grow my own cactus) yeah

I do not not press my own limonene.

The molecule told me not to sell it right in the beginning. Fo realz. . . I was in the orange room being syncronized. Only a few things were said: look forward, relax, we care about you so much, look forward... this is only for you.

I didn't feel as though I couldn't share it with friends.... or that it was really only for me. I took it as "glad you made it... lets see who else shows up."

Well not quite all of that...but we do strongly suggest self-sufficiency, especially when it comes to DMT (DMT-Nexus...).

Growing your own tobacco, salvia, and mushrooms isn't a bad idea either...and I have done all when I was using them.

I'm not into alcohol, so I don't really ferment or distill my own...

Rubbish????...I call poppycock.

Some of us do! (not tobacco, though, don't smoke it)

SWIM's in the same boat as BananaForeskin and Acolon_5, adding in not growing salvia since she doesn't use it. Planning on trying out some mapacho just to have it around. Also, add in poppies to her medicinal botanicals garden.

Nope, not here. You both should know by now, after all it specifically says in the attitude page (and in the warning before every post):



Using psychedelic substances as currency is not that much better than selling. I dont mean that you can never give psychedelic substances such as DMT away and be given something by that same person, but I dont believe in establishing arbitrary values for the substances being traded and 'calculating' so that it is an equal trade, thats like using money. So let me give two charicaturized examples to illustrate the difference:

a- You meet a person who has substances you are interested in. You have DMT which this person is interested in. You both calculate the value of each (I give you x doses of this for y doses of that, because x is more expensive " ) , both substances trade hands, you both part ways.

b- You meet a person who is interested in DMT. You first make sure the person is respectful enough, you create a certain relationship with the person. You introduce the person to DMT carefully, you walk them through the preparation for their first experience, and you help them with the integration after the experience. If they 'got it', you might want to give them some more DMT, making sure they understand not to introduce people carelessly, and you do it with a good hearted intention really wishing they do it with good use. You give them as much as you feel its right to give them. Then you can explain them how to extract if they want to know, so that they become self-sufficient. Now, incidentally, the person has another substance, let's say, mushrooms. So this person gives to you, as much as they want and can, irrespective of what you gave them, simply because they know you will appreciate them and respect them.

So I guess you see the difference. One is a cold transaction, which can be a liability to the whole community (can result in the person having an irresponsible use since they werent 'initiated' and having serious problems, and still is using DMT/substances as cold currency, using such a powerful substance as a mere tool to get you some other material you want), the other is a friendly mutual respectful sharing.



First of all, the problematic attitude you display. I suggest you read (or re-read) the attitude page because this kind of way of expressing yourself with this confrontational sarcastic tone has no place here. Also calling people's opinions rubbish is out of line! I suggest you reconsider how you are communicating. If you disagree with something, feel free to explain yourself, respectfully giving the reasons why you disagree, and hence a dialogue is established. Posting in such way as you did, even if there was a point to what you said, will just generate further negative emotions and is very disrespectful. Not in this community please.

Secondly, about the examples you gave: Yes, we do try to encourage people as much as they can to extract/grow their own substances, im sure you've been reading the forum and saw that.

Regarding the alcohol and tobacco example, they are legal goods and therefore purchasing them will not bring any negative attention to the community, as opposed to selling DMT for example. Also they do not generally generate the same kind of life-transforming experiences as do psychedelics, and putting a price tag on those transformative experiences is much more absurd imo.

teach them how to extract it so they can do it themselves, if they keep nagging you then turn them away unless you have the money and time and desire to do it

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

I'm getting in trouble for saying "rubbish"? That is rubbish. These rules of the forum of "watch your additude" type of comments from Endlessness makes me think of Nazis. I don't ever see such warnings come from any other moderator but I suppose that's what can happen one has the power to use their "discretion" in place of a set of rules like other forums.

And calling a respected moderator a nazi is a good ticket for some time off. Enjoy your vacation, I hope to see a refreshed form of you back in a week time.


The Traveler

Traveler, I like your attitude I'm glad you are the admin of this site. Not just kissing ass here. You seem like a very nice guy I'd like to know.

Actually it wasn't long ago that I had planned to sell this stuff, to be completely honest. But the spirit told me I would be sorry if I did, not because of some voodoo weirdness that would happen to me, just because it's not The Right Thing To Do, so my conscience would be bothering me.

I don't think anything at all should be sold for money, I never have. But in the real world, most everything is, until we can implement a better system. At the very least, that which is most sacred should be protected from the profit motive.

Just replace DMT with the word "love." Can you sell love, or even trade anything for it? Assuming you found a way, should you?

Now, that leads to whether it is OK to sell ayahuasca plants. Personally I wouldn't. But I think somehow they do need to be distributed, and since they are legal, the profit is not that high on them, and plus it can help spread the wealth a bit to the 3rd world.

DMT itself is more of an ethical concern for me because unlike doing aya, smoking DMT *is* something that anyone can do without any real commitment, and if you are doing it without knowing what to expect or why you are doing it, that is asking for trouble. Those who buy drugs on the street are much more likely to not have a clue what they are getting into.

One thing to be aware of in handing out Changa to people is that those people are probably going to share it with others and some of those people may not know about the precautions involved with say antidepressants for example... Be aware of this please.

oh crap, good point, dorge!

Or they might be on MDMA or somthing at a party ect...
Changa is one of those medicinEs that really needs to be in informed hands. People won't drink aya as casually as one would pass a pipe of Changa so it's somthing to think about.
If you want to share it with people perhaps setting up a session for people to do it with you in a group. That way you can ask people if they are on any meds. Just one idea...

Excellent points. You've definitely made me more cautious.

Yeah there's ways to get the medicine to people in a safe maner where you can full responsibility. Just handing it off to folks puts that responsibility in a grey zone, but if somthing happens to some one your responsible ultimately because you made.

Well said Dorge

Thanks...
My hope is that the culture around entheogens Changa a bit over time and people start doing group or community based sessions with them. To cover expenses people can pool resources together with a little organization. It's how the NAC does it. Seems to work... And no ones selling any thing.