Sister had a very unpleasant changa experience last night. She was out for a couple drinks and when she got home she thought a wee launch was in order. She loads up 100mg for 50/50 changa , takes a rip and a few seconds later she is experiencing the most pronounced tremors EVER! Almost convulsions. It was like there was a strobe light going off inside of her, or like sticking her finger in an electrical outlet. It completely overwhelmed the experience. It eventually subsided, but after taking another rip it was right back! Hell!!! Sister was so blasted that she had a hard time figuring out what was going on, wondering if she was going to drop dead or something. She has launched after a few drinks before an not had this problem.

This is the same batch of changa she has been into for two months, so nothing new in the equation. Now the day after and thinking more clearly she recalls having had some cheese in the afternoon before this happened. But reading up on MAOI reactions, this doesn't fit the symptoms. Or at least the symptoms she has been able to find on the internet. Also Sister was completely bundled up in blankets and hoody etc. so it wasn't chills.

Has anyone else experienced this or have an idea what may have caused it. Are there other symptoms of a maoi reaction other than a hypertensive crisis (which Sister didn't experience, no headache or anything like one). This was almost enough to put someone off changa

Energetic movement. Energetic release.

One of my first pharma experiences.. right as it was starting to come on, I "saw" my brain kinda short circuiting. Like electric flashes, similar to a jacobs ladder but they were short flashes instead of constant. It kinda freaked me out and I purged soon after... pretty much ending the trip.

I know these kind of flashes like an electrical discharge through my brain especially from strong rue tea. For me it was always when it appeared an uncomfortable to disgusting side effect.
A few weeks ago I ingested for the first time a 70gr Caapi-only-brew, and had a similar effect but much weaker and more of a short wave 1-2 seconds in duration. First I tried to ignore it and then I started to sing and it disappeared.
On the next day I reflected on that and out of nothing I had the strong impression that in both cases, rue and caapi, it was a kind of diminishing or deleting neuroconnections related to old and now unneeded behavioral patterns.


I know this experience is related to oral harmalas, but it might be the same cause. It didn´t happend to me all the time with rue tea and never with AYA.
In addition I don´t know if and how much harmalas you added to your changa.

If my impression was right, it could be that just something in your brainset was ready to be solved or deleted.

Or a hint from the spirits regarding alcohol, but that´s pure speculation.

Sister was using 11x cappi 50/50 with dmt + 10% rue extracted harmlas thrown in for good measure. But this same blend has been used countless times without any adverse rxn, even taken with alcohol too and nothing remotely like this. Although there more alcohol involved this time than previously.

It felt like being inside a two stroke combustion engine, the strobes were so pronounced

Well this is kind of exactly what I experience if I trip with alcohol in my system. Just some chaotic superficial crap.

I was always under the impression that one wasn't supposed to combine alcohol with MAOI's period. Personally, I like entering my DMT experiences with a clear mind anyway. Even weed can make my trips muggy and unpleasant.
I once smoked DMT after eating about 8 grams of amanitas. I was pretty sure I was dead, lost my ego, felt like I was being repeatedly smashed with a hammer, and came back not knowing who, when, or what the hell I was.
To me, it has always seemed psychedelics, but DMT especially have a low tolerance for intoxication of mind and body. I have drank during lsd/mushroom experiences in the past, but to drink before doing DMT seems a little counterproductive in terms of seeking something non-stupefying to say the least.

You are both probably right. Because Sister had done this in the past with no adverse reaction she forgot caution this time, and if memory serves she was into the imported beers that night, not her usual brand.

Sister found this relating to maoi's and EtOH:
This list consists of foods with sufficient tyramine (in small or usual serving sizes) to create a dangerous elevation in blood pressure and which therefore should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).

Alcoholic beverages - avoid Chianti wine and vermouth. Consumption of red, white, and port wine in quantities less than 120 mL present little risk (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986). Beer and ale should also be avoided (McCabe, 1986), however other investigators feel major domestic (US) brands of beer is safe in small quantities (1/2 cup or less than 120 mL) (Anon, 1989; Da Prada, 198, but imported beer should not be consumed unless a specific brand is known to be safe. Whiskey and liqueurs such as Drambuie(R) and Chartreuse(R) have caused reactions. Nonalcoholic beverages (alcohol- free beer and wines) may contain tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Stockley, 1993).

Although, the reaction she had doesn't really fit with the symptoms of elevated blood pressure, and the strobe effect was much faster than her heartbeat, hmmmmmm . . . .

Sister just found this

When ingested orally, MAOIs inhibit the catabolism of dietary amines. When foods containing tyramine are consumed (so-called "cheese syndrome), the individual may suffer from hypertensive crisis. If foods containing tryptophan are consumed, hyperserotonemia may result. The amount required to cause a reaction varies greatly from individual to individual, and depends on the degree of inhibition, which in turn depends on dosage and selectivity.

which led her to this
Symptom onset is usually rapid, often occurring within minutes. Serotonin syndrome encompasses a wide range of clinical findings. Mild symptoms may only consist of increased heart rate, shivering, sweating, dilated pupils, myoclonus (intermittent tremor or twitching), as well as overresponsive reflexes.

which led her to this
Hyperreflexia is defined as overactive or overresponsive reflexes. Examples of this can include twitching or spastic tendencies, which are indicative of upper motor neuron disease as well as the lessening or loss of control ordinarily exerted by higher brain centers of lower neural pathways (disinhibition).

EGAD! it wasn't the alcohol, somehow Sister must have ingested some tryptophan, because this describes her symptoms exactly.

Which particular types of alcoholic beverage had you drunk Dr_Sister?

Hi Corpus callosum
Sister had three 20oz stellas between 6:30pm and 11:00pm and the then two B&B's when she got home around midnight.

B&B=Brandy and Bendictine. But don't think the B&B is to blame as Sister has had that before launching before with no problems.

I too have had these same symptoms and I can tell you it had nothing to do with alcohol as I quit drinking nearly 2 years ago...I have it happen to me sometimes while partaking of some good herb. It , for me, is like a strong chill and usually if I get up and walk around for a minute or two it goes away. The first time it happened I tried just lying still and concentrated on relaxing and it was brutal. It felt like every muscle in my body , no matter location or size was convulsing. After 30minutes or so it backed off. Can be very unnerving!

Aetherbound

I have also experienced something that resembles what you say.

Any doctor will know that the same symptom can mean many things, so it's important to question about your health and different variables. But all I can say is that with normal food its pretty clear that harmala orally, and specially changa, doesnt really create physically dangerous adverse reactions with tyramine. Unless you were using some pharmaceutical MAOI or SSRI or stimulants, there shouldnt be any physical danger.

When I had that, I attribute much more to, as shadowman said, energetic release. As if the hyperspacial mother ship is scanning you But do keep questioning your own case and see if you come to any different conclusion about it.

Wish you well, keep us informed !

That pretty much sums it up