P.S. Google on her and her writings ! ! !

datura is for lonely people in the middle of the jungle looking for someone to have a chat with.

i agree with you placebo - smoking it is considered a disrespect of the plant. one does not burn the sacred.

it'd be interesting on hearing a real shamans opinion on smoking DMT.. has anyone you ever heard of visited amazon tribes with pure spice and let them try it?

this would be really interesting. - if it hasnt been done it has to be done soon before the western world consumes natures last resort. the old shamans are dying out. there will be no one to show it to in a couple of years.

I believe McKenna (Terrance or his brother) tried to introduce DMT freebase to a tribe in the Amazon. From what I have read they shunned it and told him to keep his White Man's medicine.

Most people have that reaction to DMT. Its a very small percentage of people that enjoy smoking DMT. It hits you hard and fast like a psychedelic bomb. You have little time to prepare and little time to do much when you're THERE and by the time you're getting really into it, it's about to end. It is completely useless for shamanism.

However, if snorted it's quite useful for shamanism. When snorted, the effects last much longer and don't suddenly hit you like a bomb. In South America Yopo (snuff high in DMT) and Vilca (snuff high in 5-HO-DMT) were both very popular before ayahuasca took over.

If McKenna had offered it as snuff, I'm sure they would have liked it.

"I took this stuff to Tibetans, to the Amazon. I gave it to Tibetans, they said "this is the lesser lights, the lesser lights of the Bardo. You cannot go further into the Bardo and return. This takes you as far as you can go." When I gave it to shamans in the Amazon, they said "It's strong - but this is, these are the ancestors. These are the spirits that we work with. These are ancestor souls. We know this place." (Terence McKenna, 1990).

"Time and Mind" - The Tykes by Terence McKenna.

I don't have much experience with neither Salvia or DMT but I've had a worse trip on DMT. Even though I've smoked big hits of 60x extract and had a hellish Salvia nightmare.

What I totally HATE about DMT is that I always feel like my heart is about to explode when blasting off and it can ruin my trip, I get stuck in my body But I've also had the best amazing trips on DMT but only good fun on Salvia.

I'm not really scared of Salvia but I can get really anxious before a DMT trip.

I think DMT has much more power and can show you a lot more! It's deeper stuff.

I'm sure the Salvia 60x varies depending on the source and their idea of standardization.

A couple of years ago, an individual smoked 98% pure Salvinorin A (GCMS quantitative analysis) and reported extremely bizarre effects. The duration of the experience(s) was about the same as it is when smoking extracts, but the intense nature of the experience rendered it incomparable to any other Salvia trip.

Immediately after smoking the Salvinorin A, said individual immediately passed out for what seemed like 2-3 minutes. Upon awakening, a million swaying arms were "grabbing" at him from every possible location--despite the fact he awoke seemingly without a body. Emotionally, though the arms themselves belonged to no bodies, it felt like they were all familiar and were beckoning for him to come home. The hallucination was both felt and SEEN, despite not actually occurring in the visual field.

After normal reality eventually reintegrated itself, mild auditory hallucinations and "smearing" of sounds came about. Basking in adrenaline-loaded feelings of having survived something spectacular, he attempted to draw a hot bath and relax himself. The gushing water suddenly produced a fear response and an increase in the intensity of the auditory effects, the running water sounded (felt) like a speeding train. Shortly after leaving the bathroom, the entire experience began to wane yet again and the perspective of sturdy ground eventually made its way forward.

The trip was not negative by any means, just very fragmented. It took a lot of pondering to recall all the bits and pieces.

I was always interested in salvia before trying it and this interest mostly came from looking at others' experiences with DMT on Erowid. I guess the similarity in duration and intensity with DMT got me interested in salvia. One night with my friends I got the chance to try it ended up taking 3 bongloads of it over a duration of about 45 minutes ,luckily they had a bong and torch and all that. My decision was sort of spur of the moment but at least I didn't go into it expecting a "fun time" or a cannabis high. Anyways right as I inhaled it I started counting to see if it really hit you as fast as everyone said it did. Needless to say I didn't make it past 14 when my whole perception had changed. My eyes zoomed out of focus and I could sort of see the people siting in the room but my whole vision looked the way things do in your peripheral vision and this started one of the craziest things I've ever seen with my eyes open. Blinking purple crosses (+) were lined up in my field of vision and the shocks of light from them were getting more and more intense. I also remember soon after the salvia hit me, it was too intense for my eyes to handle so I closed them out of instinct. The best way I can describe the dissociation of salvia is that normally the heart is the center of your body and you can always feel the thumping in your chest while your heart is still pumping. On salvia I felt like the rest of my body didn't exist and I was just a mind floating (or rather being pulled) around searching for a vessel, in other words a physical form. I had many CEV's over the course of the night so I will describe the most vivid ones. In one I a room with only one door, crowded with multiple clones of me all just standing in perfect line with each other. Later on I saw a brain like form that was almost the same shape and color as E.T.s body. This form seemed to have some special significance and the whole time I just watched it morphing its shape and colors like some chemical chameleon. To this day everything that form did looks exactly how I would imagine life comes into existence. Sorry for the lack of clarity, it's really hard to put into words. Shortly after this my vision field returned to the point where I could see the room around me but with many colors and patterns everywhere. What happened next is what really showed me how much power salvia has. I definitely wasn't back to baseline because it felt like my body had become a part of the chair I was in and I still couldn't hear anything but it felt like I had just died and while the normal world was not back I was somewhere else. One friend was saying something to me I never understood but he almost seemed to be gesturing me towards something. Then I looked to the right of him and there was a shimmering golden almost portal-like thing in the air. Upon seeing this, a sense of welcoming flooded over me and I was in pure awe of the object and how it made me feel so at-home. After the trip, this was probably the part I most reflected on. When I left my body it felt like everything that ever happened to me on this Earth in my body and mind had never existed and was just an imagination of some greater being and when I came back to the golden light it was almost like being welcome into heaven. I HATE using that word because I don't believe in any of that bullshit Christianity stuff about the afterlife, but unlike Christian teaching, this "heaven" seemed totally sincere. One interesting thing about my experiences with salvia is that once I was tripping I forgot I had even smoked anything and every object I saw seemed to have intelligence and it felt as if these objects were the ones causing the trip rather than the salvia. I've never had a bad trip on salvia, and this is no doubt because I'm good at "letting go" and not resisting, as I can see how so many people would try to overpower the feeling which is impossible and obviously would make the experience very unpleasant.

SWIM tried smoking salvia once with spice...and to tell you the truth...it was the salvia that had control...the salvia was holding in the spice...it was like looking at a piece of grid paper...the salvia were the lines..and the spice was the space in between...salvia world is like an edge of realities...and spice world is like falling through your cabinet door and ending up in somebody's home...and there are people there...makes the world feel very...empty...as in...all matter that we experience is just a surface..and behind that surface...all that space it taken up by other beings...keeping secret from this world...its pretty cool when a door opens in your wall about waste high and a little dude sticks his head out real fast..as you follow him back in to fly around on the other side of the 'surface'

Yes I totally agree with you about salvia totally overpowering the DMT. This elf sometimes does an extraction on chaliponga to use with la Pastora just for this reason. 5meo has proven time and time again to be an insane body load, which sometimes produces uncomfortable anxiety, however if it's followed up with a nice big hit of homegrown plain leaf the results are beautiful. The green goddess just envelopes this little elf in her arms and ever so gently sweeps him away to her land. Any anxiety felt from the 5meo is completely abolished by this point(30 seconds in), and is nowhere to be found once the sage wears off.
Seriousily though, i would really recomend this combo. Where usually at dosages this small with the sage I wont have visuals so clear and defining, I have seen arabic like temples and other DMT-esque landscapes forming within the salvia portals. Its like the sage becomes a matrix like hyperspace with swirling portals leading into more tryptamine seeming realms.
I do however have somewhat of a romance going on with this amazing teacher, so this situation might not apply to everyone. While my first few experience with the sage were mainly strange and frightening I feel as like my appretiation for her has come from the dedication I applied to understanding her(which I am still far from). What I have learned is that with her you must feel safe and COMPLETELY let go into her world, NEVER fight the pull or all on ends up with is 2 minutes of deleriousness and confusing ego death. Usually the only thing frightneng so far for me has been the period when i open my eyes thinking its ended and realizing it hasn't as I am now EVERYTHING. Happens almost everytime although I am now quite used to it.
I know so many people out there extremely dislike this teacher, however I feel(humbly) that this perspective is unwarranted. Granted, she is vastly different from the tryptamines, and must surely be approached with somewhat of a differnet method, but there is no doubt mush to learn from this one.

Do you mean snort the same extracted dmt freebase we smoke? How much should to use, how badly does it burn the nostrils and can something be mixed with it to make it easier on the nose?

I never knew yopo was high in DMT. I thought columbrina and perigrina were both mainly bufo.. I think ive got columbrina cus they def dont feel like a DMT experience, wayyyy to much nasea.

Hey 69ron, you seem to be the expert here on bufo, have you had much luck with smoking prepared yopo(calcium bufo) in quick successivehits or would you recomend an extraction. I dont have too many seeds left and never really seem to be able to smoke enough for breakthrough effects, so I would like to get the full experience b/f I go all out and grow the seeds myself.

Heaven vs Hell

Salvia seems to roll back time and show me how everything has evolved, it literally tears me apart and time speeds up in the wrong direction until i reach darkness, DMT seems to do the exact opposite and elevate me into the future, lightness.

Let there be light. Even the contrast between the colors of the spice tells a story.

Salvia the black light, N,N-DMT the rainbow light, 5 MeO-DMT the white light.

Now Caapi and Iboga ?

I don't know what exactly you mean "it's useless for shamanism". Whatever it is it's just based on your own experiences and does not mean that it is the same for everyone. Also when you state that very small percentage enjoy it, how can this be exactly the fact, when then very few people would even use it?
Your post just reflects your own experiences and opinions and therefore should not be considered as facts.

DMT = A rollercoaster ride through upper dimensions and encounters with beings who tend to be kindly (or at least not unfriendly). One feels like one is being shown things, and given information... or just priviliged to watch as some vastly superior entities show off for you. It generally doesn't feel like the beings in question can actually accost you... that you are protected somehow. The greatest danger is having your mind blown. And, it generally makes you feel more powerful and superhuman afterward.

Salvia = An alien abduction by beings who have absolutely no respect for you, violate your person, wipe your memory of their soul raping, and spit on you as they leave... laughing about how they processed you like a psycho-spatial meat widget in their factory. Despite having lurid grins, and taking you places that are colorful and fantastic... these beings do not seem to be authentically happy or smiling with their eyes. They are like gangs of plasticene clown elves who kidnap you and take you to a vivesection plant disguised as a funhouse. There is the definite feeling that you could be seriously harmed and not even realize it. Like having your kidneys stolen on a spirit level.

SWIM grew salvia and extracted extremely pure stuff from it back well before it became popular or even known to most. He procured cuttings from a witch and cared for them for some time before his experiences with the extracts led him to distrust and dislike the plant and its army of Lego Land fuzzy elves.

The problem with Salvia is that you absolutely don't even remember a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a percent of what happens to you... until the next time you do it. Only then, it is WAY too late. All you can do is mumble OMG OMG OMG, No No No, Wait Wait Wait... before you are beaten sensless and transformed into an inanimate object.

SWIM was only able to realize the immensity of the experience by taking copious notes, engaging sober sitters and forcing them to pay EXTREMELY close attention. And even then, only after a good number of experiences. The idea that someone should do something that imparts only periphial wisdom while leaving one feeling utterly disempowered and used like the single condom owned by a 2$ whore... is mind boggling. It is only because no one remembers the eternity that they spend in that realm, that such a thing is even conceivable. It may only be 5 minutes over here, but it is lifetimes on the other side.

Another reason people find salvia more benign than it seems to SWIM is that the leaves will not get you broken through on their own, and even at 10x 20x or 40x extractions, it may not be enough to give you the E ticket ride, depending on your skill at smoking the stuff and holding the green gacking mist in your lungs. If all you ever encountered was the vortex opening in front of you and some clownish faces swirling in the tunnel like some awfully mad hatter's dream, you might not find it worrisome.

At the super high levels needed to truly open & sustain the vortex, a phalanx of very militaristic beings comes rushing out, sometimes in a "dragon" formation and completely bowls you over, presses you to 2 dimensions, and scans you like a disc into their machine. This is even less fun than it sounds like.

The final thing that SWIM told me to mention here, is that Salvia has an unprecedented ability to have its "hallucinations" cross over into the "real" world. Things that you assume (hope desperately) were just flights of fantasy are shown to be absolutely true. Assaults on your physical person by the demonic muppets from hell are visible (to a much lesser degree) by completely sober sitters. SWIM has had them smash him flat, shake him out like a rug, form a stairway out of his body and then proceed to march up and down him with their oddly spongy boot soles smashing into his precious face over and over again. (the sitter noticed strange depressions on his chest in a pattern consistent with being walked on, and even noticed his nose bending as if being flattened repeatedly) SWIM has had them grab the bong out of his hands telling him he had enough, levitate it across a room and slowly empty the bongwater on his favorite pillow. (the sitter who saw this happen wouldn't speak to him ever again) SWIM has had them lift him off the ground by his collar and lapels, slap him around cartoon style, and then toss him 5m away... manipulating his fall so that he landed on a mattress randomly laying on the ground, but forcing his hand to just barely knick a wooden post just hard enough to blead 3 or 4 drops. This was apparently done to prove to him their power. When SWIM was retreieved and dusted off by the sitter on this occasion, he mistook the sitter for a friendly (perish the thought) one of the elves, and upon realizing that he was back, was babbling about how "Oh my g*d... you have no idea how good it is to see you. It has been ages. Thank the lord. Thank you for saving me etc." The sitter who had seen all this take place in normal time flow was less put off by the whole, been gone for ages spiel than he was by having seen a man suspended in the air and flung like a rag doll off a porch and down some stairs. Once he ascertained that SWIM was okay, he immediately left and would never speak to SWIM afterwards, and regarded SWIM with a level of fear reserved for people possessed in the Exorcist films.

Please don't believe anyone's anecdotal reports. I don't expect that any sane, rational human being... and certainly not the logical, brilliant sort found here, should buy anything of this fantastical nonsense. Just be open to the idea that this could be the case, and watch yourselves. SWIM wishes he would have filmed his experiences rather than just had a sitter... alas, SWIM will never, EVER in a million years repeat those forays into Lego Land, so it remains for some intrepid psychonaut other than him to provide documentation of the true power of Salvia. And, I don't meen teenagers posting their bonghits of half-assed salvia on youtube.

Take all this worth a grain of salt. Dissmiss it. I would. SWIM would lose all respect for you if you just took his experience at its word. While SWIM is absolutely sure that chewing salvia leaves could provide authentic insights and has helped shaman he knows identify the values and characteristics of unknown plants... SWIM just can't bring himself to trust a plant that can't reproduce on its own, must be cloned because its seeds are not viable, and dies if no one is around to pluck its flowers before they open. This is a strange square stemmed plant that only exists because certain sketchy brujas have kept it alive all these years. And, it certainly gives datura a run for its money as far as "demonic crossover experiences that are as hard to recall as pre-natal memories of events that took place on the other side of the world" go.

this is why salvia is taken as a quid most likely amongst the mazatecs and never smoked. I have grown it for years..I love it..taken it daily for a long time and use it rarely these days. Every time I take it it blows my mind..quidding is less threatening I find. I also dont really find the beings negative or threatening anyway..just that smoking is very fast paced and intense and quidding is more like real medicine work. Maybe salvia just loves me, I cant say. She is good to me..most of the time. I have met the being that resides in the plant face to face and she reminds me of someones grandmother..though she has a younger more wild side as well..


Salvia also is not incapable of reproducing on it's own. People have successfully gotten plants to go to seed and they are definatily viable, and I really really really doubt that they dont ever go to seed in the wild in huatla either..The luna strain is one strain that was grown out from seeds that someone collected from homegrown plants. It is hard to get them to seed in cultivation though.

@ Hyperspace Fool – Well, it’s obvious that you haven’t had positive experiences with salvia, but don’t jump to the conclusion that everyone has the same types of experiences as you. My experience with salvia isn’t anything like what you describe. Maybe I have an unusual brain chemistry or something, but salvia experiences for me are never unpleasant. Usually it’s emotionally flat, sometimes funny, sometimes slightly euphoric, but never as you describe it.

I’ve used salvia on and off for almost 4 years now (smoking my own 20X), and I must say that I enjoy it. I don’t feel a need to use it very often, but every time I do, it’s a pleasant experience. It often feels like “going home” – like returning to the “real” world. It is a world inhabited by human beings – relatives, children, and friends. It’s a world that’s very “close” – just a dimensional fold away from our own.

Whenever I prepare for a deep DMT experience, I, like almost everyone else, experience a fair amount of anxiety just prior to launch. With salvia, I never feel that way. I’ve had a few difficult experiences with salvia, but no “bad” experiences and none that caused me to stay away from it. In my experience, DMT has much more “trauma potential” than does salvia, at least at doses within a “normal” range.

Now, of course if you consume “super high” doses, I’m sure that the experience could become very unpleasant. But the same is true of DMT. Even playing the most beautiful music at an eardrum-shattering volume will be an unpleasant experience.

I definatly see what you mean.I still find it fascinating somehow. And I would add, that i think these beings are just very immature. Almost animal like. Just don't be afraid of them, they might even be willing to play or have a talk with you!

Interesting FE.

At the time SWIM was growing salvia, there was only one strain known. I have noticed other strains popping up in the interim. A friend swears by his orange salvia. I have heard talk of purple salvia as well. Perhaps the newer varieties that are viable on their own will be less "alien."

Perhaps the extreme extracts and smoking are truly insulting what would otherwise be a benign goddess, and she punished SWIM and some of his early adopter friends before calming down and deciding to work with humans. I know that Killer Whales used to be the most dangerous animals in the sea and were extremely hostile towards humans until a certain moment in time when they became docile and friendly. I believe that this moment coincided with humanity being able to manufacture harpoon guns powerful enough to deal with the Orcas.... hehehe.

SWIMs experiences above were at a moment in time which might have passed... I doubt it though. Salvia still seems rather dark and unfriendly to me. Even just the random toke of some dried leaves while on other entheogens brings shadowy and malignant energy around SWIM. Perhaps it is a personal thing.

Needless to say, there are plenty of other entheogens who are more allied to SWIMs temperment and soul.

Have you noticed any hallucinations "crossing over" or becoming visible to people who are sober?