Hello,

I was hoping someone could tell me how much NaOH it takes to neutralize a gram of citric acid?

Thanks!
Syzygy Psy

I'm assuming you are asking because you do not have bark in the brew, or else it would be an obvious turn from red/pink to black if there was bark in there.

In the case you don't have bark in the mix, in SWIM's experience he just puts lots and gets good white crystal yields.

It is not an accurate answer, but I assure you too much lye will not hurt the DMT.

But also you should know that Sodium carbonate (baking soda open in the oven for a couple hours at 450) will work just fine.
It will fizz a bit so add it slow, when the fizzing stops you add a bit more then the PH should be sufficient.

I think syzy must want for something else, he is well versed in extractions

I dont know it either, im sure its some kind of calculation involving moles, lets see if someone else knows it

Syzy - I may just be telling you what you already know, but you can calculate the number of moles of citric acid, and then you just need the equal number of moles of NaOH to neutralize them. You multiply the number of moles of NaOH you need by the molar mass of NaOH, and presto you've got the weight of NaOH needed. You can get the moles of citric acid by dividing the weight of the citric acid by the molar mass of citric acid (It sorta gets tricky here, b/c citric acid can be anhydrous or monohydrate - unless you've bought from a pharmaceutical source, your citric acid is probably monohydrate).

OTOH if you're asking about how to deal with the fact that citric acid is a polyprotic acid, then someone more knowledgable than me will have to answer... If you get sick of waiting you could just use a pH meter or pH strips gradually add NaOH until you hit your desired pH.

If one were extracting DMT, he or she would not need to worry about adding too much base, since DMT is stable even at pH 14 (AFAIK)

It would be a very good idea to invest in some pH papers or a probe.

WTF guys whatever happened to simple, to-the-point answers?, Syzy just asked a simple question!


And the simple answer is:

1 gram of (anhydrous) citric acid will require 0.625 grams of NaOH to fully neutralise it.

and 1 gram of (hydrated, monohydrous) citric acid will require 0.57 grams of NaOH to fully neutralise it.

Basically roughly 0.6 grams will neutralise 1 gram of citric acid, hope that helps!

Infindibulum, you da man.

To satisfy everyone's curiosity, Swim has found a way to turn one's leftovers after an extraction (assuming one is using limonene or some other nontoxic plant terpene as one's nonpolar solvent) into a magickal soap that will heal practically any skin condition.

In order to make soap, one uses NaOH to saponify oils. The beauty of this is that NaOH is already present in the basified bark solution, and said bark has been used for centuries by natives as a remedy for skin conditions... it's so powerful that even the Red Cross used it when they ran out of conventional treatments after a petroleum plant explosion left over 5,000 people severely wounded when that big earthquake hit Mexico back in the daze.

Anyway Swim first cooketh his bark in citric acid, then basifieth with NaOH... so rather than pouring the sacred leftovers down the toilet, he is now making it into a soap, thus healing both the mind, spirit, AND body with Mimosa alchemy.

In order to calculate the proper NaOH to oil ratios, I needed to know precisely what infindibulum just told me. I knew there was a way to go about figuring it out based on that molar stuff that was mentioned earlier, but also knew it would take me several hours to figure out how to go about it since it's been forever since I fell asleep in chem class... so when swim asked me, I figured I'd pass the question along and see if someone who already knew would be generous enough to save me the time.

So many thank yous, yet again, Infindibulum... once more, another part of my tek is indebted to you.

Swim wants me to apologize for his long absence from this forum... he has been off "in the field" gathering data, and more recently has had to work a stupid omnichrohophageal (all-time-consuming) job in order to make ends meet. Now that's coming to an end, and he has a plethora of new discoveries (such as the aforementioned soap recipe) and other information, ponderings, musings, etc. to share with the group, so hopefully he will pass those on to me soon, and I shall proceed to pass them on to y'all as they come in.

Much love and light to everyone, and thanks again Infindibulum!

A.) Can I steal the new word?

B.) Are the effects of this soap the result of the tannins and oils in the bark? Or are other ingredients thought to be involved?

Yeah, the new word popped up outta the ether... I was just a conduit for it, I don't own it, so feel free to use it, it's not even stealing.

The skin healing properties are thought to be due to a variety of compounds, among which are tannins and oils but also minerals and other skin healing nutrients and such. A classic example of the fallacy of our tendency as westerners to wanna isolate specific compounds and attribute the properties of a plant to only one molecule, when really it's a synergistic effect of the entire plant itself, and all of its components working together to produce an effect.

what would the strategy to turn the jug into soap be? I currently make mimosa soap, but it is out of powder + glycerin (works great actually), but I want to be making real soap! I wonder if my soap is lacking a punch due to the oils not being subjected to a base...

I wanna make some mimosa soap too!!

Looking forward to reading about how you do it.

Thanks for the interest, it's a truly amazing process... nothing is wasted, every part of the plant is used to heal mind AND body!

I'll post a tek as soon as I get some time to write it up. Keep an eye out for it...

do you just neutralize and evap?

No, quite the opposite... you want the water and NaOH in there, both are essential parts of soap. That's the beauty of it, everything's already there... it's practically BEGGING to be made into soap!


Write-up coming soon, I just gotta get on top of some "real world" things I'm behind on. For now, just be sure to save all your jugs... IF you're using limonene, that is. I wouldn't wanna make soap out of petroleum extracts...

man i cant save my shit that gets tossed the moment swim is done ya know HALP IM DIRTY