Was the brew made with citric acid? Citrate harmaloids aren't incredibly soluble in water and tend to stack, leaving next to nothing toward the top and much more toward the bottom. This can result in variable experiences.

People are raising the "BS flag," because you're jumping to conclusions that don't reflect the experiences of some of the veterans around here, and with next to no info for anyone to assess what's actually happening. If brewed properly, there will be no question about it for any who partake. Sorry, your account of the situation and how you're going about things does not instil "good faith."

Yes the brew was made with citric acid. I made sure to mix all of the shots very well before dosing happened. But perhaps you're right and somehow only my shot got mixed sufficiently (is it really hard to mix it up or something? Is it a really thin layer of dmt on the bottom that sticks to glass or something?)

Is this not the standard method for preparing aya? Should I have used HCL or some other acid, or no acid?

I have attempted to answer every question that has been posed me. That is why I don't understand why the BS flag is being raised.

Ok, so miraculously you don't get the alcohol analogy. Let me go one step cruder: If I tell you i can eat 75 hamburgers in half an hour, would your BS flag go up?

Please give us more info do we can put your plight into context and help you, because so far it seems so outrageous as to defy credulity. Unless your technique is heroically bad...

JBArk

jbark: Pharmacology of various ayahuasca preparations is not analogous to the ingesting of hamburgers. Please stop wasting my time. If you have something genuine to contribute, as amor_fati did, then I would appreciate that.

i am not very well versed with spice (only have a handful of blast offs under my belt) but i am very familiar with other psychedelics. i know that if i can get off on 3 hits of acid, taking 10 would do way more than get me off, unless the acid was fake or i somehow ingested it wrong.

from my limited experience with spice, i seriously doubt that you couldn't get off with that much. never even touched pharma yet but just using logic (and simple math)...if you have really been taking as much as you say (not calling you a liar...just for arguments sake) than there must be something wrong with either a) method, or, b)quality.

if you have a large group of experienced pharma users saying that what you're saying doesn't add up, in IME, that means it doesn't add up. if one person says you're wrong, it might be that person. if everyone says you're wrong, well then...you're wrong.

please try not to get offended moyshe...there have recently been a couple of threads posted by some people that were bullshit and stirred a lot of shit up. so, we're all a little on edge in fear of an influx of fake accounts and attention seeking (and shit starting) threads. not saying that you're guilty of either of these. thing is, from the looks of it, you're story doesn't add up.

if you're taking as much as you say you are (and not breaking through and still are alive) than you should maybe take a look at methodology and/or quality. we all are here to share in the experience. maybe you should listen to what the group is saying and try something different. if you're are telling the truth about your accounts...well then...hey. everyone's saying try something different. if you're really here to experience all that is and here for the right reasons, you should take the group's suggestions to heart and not feel attacked.

i know i'm looking forward to trying pharma soon and will ask several people here for advice on what to do and how to do it before i jump off that cliff. i ALWAYS talk to people before i try something. i don't even take the thread's advice alone. i always send PMs to certain people and ask for their advice. maybe you can try that. works for me.

I am reacting to your outrageous claims with regards to your consumption of DMT, and further hyperbole that there is a factor of 10x for some to get drunk on alcohol; While this may be slightly more true due to an accumulated tolerance with alcohol, no such tolerance has been measured with DMT, and your experiences do not suggest a degree of regular use that would indicate a tolerance even were there one.

If your experiences and those of your friends are genuine, I apologize and am duly mystified. However I have a very hard time believing this, as clearly do many here. So I resorted to some outrageous analogies to demonstrate the outrageousness of your claims. I am as aware that the "Pharmacology of various ayahuasca preparations is not analogous to the ingesting of hamburgers" as I am aware that ingesting the amount you describe without experiencing any effects is either due to the reasons described in many posts here, or an outright falsehood.

Now let's both stop "wasting [our] time", in your words.

Nuff said here.

JBArk

I just feel like almost no one is really reading what I have written, which is part of why you say nothing I'm saying makes sense. I'm saying, I have friends who can't experience anything even taking the EXACT same huge dose that I have taken. They THEN CAN experience it once they move to a safer-feeling setting.
As for myself, I have NO PROBLEM blasting off. That is not my complaint, yet people seem to suggest that it is. I am merely saying that no matter what dose I take, I can only really trip on it (low dose leading to easier trip, no real blast off of course, higher dose leading to blast off) IF I relax and meditate into it.
I do have experience with other drugs and ROAs, like MJ, salvia, 4acodmt, changa, and what I'm saying is that oral consumption of DMT is different for me in that it does not take over unless I am ready for it. All other drugs just take over no matter what. EVEN AFTER I give in to the aya/pharma and I am seeing things (OEVs) and trippy thoughts of telepathy etc., I can still CHOOSE to get up (and sometimes do) and the trip basically ends right there. The only time I can no longer control the trip is, of course, after blast off. I am really surprised that I am the only person who experiences these effects, but please don't call me a B.S.er.

Please do not brew with HCl...how is that even on the table? Just don't mix harmaloids in with citric acid for a brew (it's fine with DMT), and stacking shouldn't be an issue. Anyway, I'm done with this thread...tired of prodding for info that should have been given on the very first post.

If you need THAT much spice, my guess is that either your MAO inhibition is off, or you have bunk mhrb... but I'm leaning more towards the idea that you weren't fully inhibited.

Are you and your friends on any type of pharmaceuticals? Some seem to deeply subdue the DMT experience, though they would probably do the same to many of the other substances you mention.

It could be that there is almost no DMT in those 'pretty pure white crystals'.

There is a small portion of the human race that feels no effect from DMT. Perhaps you are one of those people. I don't know. Has anyone else tried these crystals?

About smoking technique -- if you can successfully vaporize MJ, you should have no problem vaporizing at least SOME of the spice. THC vaporizes at a much higher temperature than spice. There's a large window of success between poor technique and good. Waaay back when I didn't really know better, I tried loading ~30mg spice into a roll of aluminium foil and just lit it on fire with a torch. It worked, I felt SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT. Definitely distinguishable from placebo.

It's really hard to say what's going on here. I'm just worried about safety factors. Please be careful and take good notes. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this eventually.

Also, misidentified bark could simply be bark from the wrong kind of acacia and perhaps has trace amounts of dmt plus mystery alkaloids.

I'm sorry peeps keep raising the BS flag on you, it's really not a constructive thing to say. I know it's hard not to take offence at a statement like that but do understand -- your report is a frustrating one because it falls outside of all the usual patterns and that is why it is so important to understand what is going on here.

I'm just editing this to say that I agree, it is possible all this oddness is due to psychological factors. It would be odd but I really can't rule it out.

Perhaps it's similar to what happened to felnik:

Well, I have to admit that from time to time I will have only mild effects from the same amount of spice (and same batch) that usually sends me right
into hyperspace (and I know how to use my GVG), so I wouldn't go as far as to totally dismiss the possibility that this isn't BS.

I am not on any, my 2 other friends were not on any, and the third was not on any for 24hrs though I think before that he took some hydrocodone for pain.

Ah ok, just the harmaloids... well actually one of the times with my friends I did give them the harmaloids separately (I think mixed with diet pepsi or maybe it was just water?). But yeah I will definitely not mix those harmaloids in again with citric acid. Thanks for that info.

I wasn't trying to be vague about any of this but I just didn't know what info was relavent I guess. Sorry.

Yes, it is entirely possible that I have somehow fucked up every tek I've tried. That's why I am kind of giving up on it until I find someone in real life that can show me how it's done.

No one else has tried them except my one completely DMT-inexperienced friend who got less effect than I did. Please note that I am not at all immune to oral DMT... I am quite susceptible to it, I think, even though I can control it's effects upon me after ingestion.


I guess maybe I should try that. I think I tried vaping salvia that way one time... not sure if it worked for me. Plus I hear it's bad for you.


On my next experiment with a friend, I will DEFINITELY be dosing them good with at least 400mg harmine HCL sublingually before giving them the MHRB concentrate. I want to remove this lack of MAOI factor from the equation.


It's MHRB and if you read my posts, it is verified (it works on me, just not my friends).

Well, part of the issue people have had is that in the dose ranges you're speaking of the intensity would normally be so much that it would feel traumatic. With one person, perhaps its the rare individual that gets no effects from DMT that McKenna spoke about. With four, something else is up.

It seems to me the only 2 possibilities are: A) what people have been saying, i.e. insufficient MAOI for all 3 friends, or B) it is psychological, or C) maybe some combo. I personally KNOW that there is a huge psychological component to it, though, through testing on myself. This is what almost no one here wants to accept.

Hey!

If you cant get the VG to work maybe you should try going back to basics with The Machine?

After i had extracted my first DMT i made myself a Machine while waiting for the x-tals to crash out of the heptane.

As soon as all the heptane that i couldnt pour off had evaporated i loaded up 16mgs of the very lightly yellow powder i got, lit a lighter, drew hot air through the bottle and before i could finish my second draw there were geometric patterns folding themselves out of my lighter and bottle and i was i candyland.

On my second try i vaped 25mgs, closed my eyes, got shot through a mechanical maze built of geometrical patterns to a place where there were dancing entities that were trying to communicate with me

This was the first and second times ever i vaporized, im not a regular smoker of tobacco or cannabis and i had not trouble at all with this method.

I think its pretty foolproof if you just follow the guide in the wiki.

Good luck!

Why would you be administering your MAOI sublingually to activate an oral dose? That could be part of the problem, although giving your friends 400mg of harmalas with ANY significant amount of oral DMT is irresponsible any way you slice it.

To address your original question... No, your mindset is NOT going to control whether or not you get off - not at a sufficient dosage. If your materials are bona fide, your extractions sound and your method of ingestion viable, you will not be in control AT ALL of where or how far you are going. You may resist and get sucked into some kind of vortex of hellish terror, but resistance won't stop you from feeling the effects. That's just not how DMT works.

Just for the record, I did once eat 150 hamburgers in one sitting (while shotgunning a keg of whiskey). I hardly felt any effects whatsoever - but then again, I was mentally resistant and had smoked over a pound of spice as well, so you've got to factor that in.

Dude anything over 10g mimosa is more than you will ever want!

Consider you and your friends LUCKY you only achieved the mild affects you did!

Maybe its not such a bad idea for you to take a break until someone who knows what they are doing can help you....

My guess for why your pharma is weak, is maybe you dont have enough MAOI, but you certainly have WAY to much dmt for ANYONE!

Seriously its very clear from your posts you have no idea what your talking about 500mg spice? Give me a break!

Take some time to properly educate yourself on the matters, and if it still doesn't make any sense to you, then just stay away from DMT.