I was happy to learn that the FV caapi copy and THH is essentially useless as an ayahuasca analog as the 'THH' present turned out to be really just mostly harmine. It does correlate with my C copy pharma experience compared to my experiences with ayahuasca. I like this quote from spiritplants describing THH:



I think I rather just boil the vine for now rather maybe "pharmahuasca" shouldn't even really exist.. Well now I'm just pondering what vine vendors or vine types to surely have a good THH ratio as I read some vines can actually not have any.

It’s very easy (and economical) to extract caapi alkaloids from vine. The amount of THH in b. caapi varies considerably, but I’ve never read that some vine contains no THH (some vine has been found to contain THH as the major alkaloid). Take a look at erowid for a summary.

these "caapi copy" pharma brews containing harmine, harmaline and THH I dont think will ever be identical to ayahuasca..since caapi has so far been found to contain something like 9 active alkaloids..Im not sure all of them make it through that extraction either, but it wouldnt surprise me if some of them dont.

That extraction tek discards the sediment. I have brewed alot of ayahuasca, and I have noticed something lately. If I decant the sediment and collect it, and rebrew it in new water, collect it again and rebrew it, then add that to my origional brew, reduce and then only decant it after an hour or so, so that only the heaviest sediments are removed, it seems to get some extra alkaloids out of the sediment and what precips out afte that hour from the brew is more of just the inactive stuff..after that anything that precips out, gets shaken back up into the brew every time I drink..the brew is different..it is subtle but also consistant..the experiene is heavier somehow, and not just the body load..also the afterglow and feeling of extreme health and contentment afterwords seems more pronounced.

My brews prepared this way are always very dark, thick and muddy looking..like how many traditional brews in the amazon are described..so I wonder if there is some other alks in that sediment that arent as predominant when all the sediments are just removed, or at least not rebrewed and added to the first boils..

The extraction TEK I use extracts substances that are insoluble in an alkaline solution (ph>12) and soluble in an acidic solution (pH<5 or so). This includes harmine, THH, harmaline and probably most other alkaloids.

However, there are many other compounds in caapi. Some may get extracted and some may not. Even a traditional water-brew of caapi may not effectively extract all active compounds. So if someone wants a traditional ayahuasca brew experience, then he should consume traditionally brewed caapi. Even substances that we may consider to be undesirable, such as “tannins”, may contribute in a positive way to the traditional ayahuasca experience.

I don’t consider extracted caapi alkaloids to be an ayahuasca substitute – they have their own unique profile and produce their own unique effects. That being said, I would guess that the effects of caapi extracted alkaloids are more similar to traditional ayahuasca than any other extracted concoction (such as FV’s caapi copy).

EDIT:
Regarding the extraction TEK and sediment: Only a small amount of insoluble plant fiber/dust is removed during the acidification step. The sediments that normally settle in caapi brew are mostly (maybe entirely?) alkaloids. These are not discarded. During the first basification, all of the sediments are collected – only the clear dark brown/black liquid is discarded (take a look at the photos).

"I don’t consider extracted caapi alkaloids to be an ayahuasca substitute – they have their own unique profile and produce their own unique effects. That being said, I would guess that the effects of caapi extracted alkaloids are more similar to traditional ayahuasca than any other extracted concoction (such as FV’s caapi copy)."

yeah i agree..if I was to take pharma I would just use my full spectrum harmala extracts from rue and caapi..I have never extracted from caapi other than aya brews and iso tinctures for changa though, so I cant really say how similar it would be..but im sure it would get much closer than simply mixing the 3 harmalas together in some ratio.

I've also taken the caapi copy for my pharma and the experience was quite disappointing to the usual effects I get from simply crushing up syrian rue seeds and putting them in gel caps. I know that doing an extraction on the rue would make it less nauseating, but after an hour in I always puke pretty easily and painlessly, and after that it's usually smooth sailing from there nausea wise. If I'm still nauseous, I'll smoke some spice which will inevitabily make me wanna puke again. After puking the second time, I'm usually in a world of OEVs and CEVs.