Hi Nexus,

SWIM's finally undergoing his first all food-grade extraction from MHRB.

SO I've been tasked to ask you for help concerning his first couple of obstacles.

The tek was somewhat unorthodox:

1kg of shredded MHRB was put in a big pot, soaked with white vinegar, and simmered for a couple of hours.


1kg lime was disolved in some warm water, and added to the pot, which was left to simmer for another hour.

1 litre limo was added to the dough.

At this point SWIM realized that his bark is probably too thickly shredded, so he slowly processed everything through a blender. He was left with a brown dough.

THP: Taking a 3liter hdpe jug, SWIM cut off the bottom, stuck some cotton in the neck, and filled it with most of the dough, leaving it to filter overnight.

After 3 days of filtering like this (with some variations tried), SWIM realized that the THP filtering is too slow! This dough will never shed all it's limo, let alone SWIM putting in more limo and letting it filter again.


1)----> So this is the first question. Is the THP extremely inefficient, or is SWIM doing something wrong. Should I add more water to the dough, to make it more easily filtered?

Now some of the limo has already collected underneath the THP, SWIM filtered this through cotton again, and he measured the limo: 350ml (out of 1 litre that was put in).



The limo gathered was combined with some hot FASW, shaken and left to separate, expecting a clear separation, limo on top, water to the bottom, etc etc.

However, SWIM was weirded out when he observed:
2A) the FASW (80ml) floating on TOP of the limo, with visible DMT pieces floating in it.
2B) the FASW not separating completely from the limo. The visible FASW layer is less than what was put in.



So, naturally, SWIM asks: How Come?


Any ideas? Feel free to request any more details. The limo was orange when collected from the THP, it was perfectly clear before.
I used hydrated lime.


Thanks Nexus, I've been doing a LOT of reading here throughout the past few months. I wouldn't be anything like the person I am now if it wasn't for yhis magnificent gathering of exeptionally interesting ideas, and exceptionally intrigued minds.

Luck,

~Dug

As for the THP issues, stir well, and flush many times over with a bit more limonene (if SWIM hasn't missed his guess, that amount of limonene barely covers such a huge amount of material). That's a hell of a lot of bark to do at once in this manner, possibly and electric mixing device of some kind would help (like this?). You can be sure of on thing, the rest of the limonene is interspersed in the doughy mix, helping to draw out the product for further flushes. The mixture will start to become noticeably drier as more limonene is drawn out (along with excess moisture that will separate from the limonene, as discussed below), and the limonene will pass much more quickly.

SWIM would venture to guess that what was retrieved was not limonene at all, as sometimes excess moisture will drain from the doughy mixture and needs to be pipetted out of the collected limonene prior to mixing with FASW.

Again, that's a huge amount of bark to be doing all at once and should require more liomene, as well as a good deal of stirring. SWIM did around half a kilo in multiple separate THP's and had no problems.

@amor_fati:

Hi mate, thanks for taking the time to help me out here, and, furthermore, thanks for your contribution to the Nexus, your guide was amongst the texts SWIM consulted to pull off his first food-grade extraction.

Now concerning the THP, the stirring does help a lot, and yes, a stirring device would help, but is currently unavailable. I think SWIM will have to complete the extraction by hand.





Now the only thing remaining for SWIM is to find a plausible enough explanation for the water layer floating on top of the limo.

Any ideas? You mentioned that the stuff SWIM pulled so far might not be just limonene, rather than a mix of water+limo, and that if that's the case, it would need to be pipetted out prior to mixing with FASW.

Can you (or somebody else of course) explain why's that? Why does excess moisture prevent the FASW from working right? Doesn't the excess moisture also get saturated with fumaric acid when SWIM adds the FASW?


Any advice is welcomed.

Luck,
~Dug

What I'm getting at is that, to my knowledge, it's impossible for limonene to sink in water--let alone in FASW--so whatever's floating on top is likely limonene, whatever's remaining in the aqueous solution (dissolved, floating or settled) is likely the byproduct that flushed out with any excess water. Any spice in salt-form (fumarate in this case) would remain dissolved, rather than floating, sinking or what have you. What I'm saying is that it's quite possible that the 350mL collected may simply be a mix of water, lime, and MHRB byproduct, rather than limonene. If SWIY has any doubt, freeze it, and if there's still no separation, there's no limonene, and thus, no spice.

What did the collected liquid look like prior to mixing with FASW (color? layers?)? What do the "floaties" look like?

Ok, here are the specifics:

the limonele was crystal clear when bought. After it came out of the MHRB+vinegar+lime+water solution, it was dark orange. It was filtered through cotton again, and got a slightly lighter orange color.

So in a glass with 350ml limo, SWIM added <100ml FASW. The bottle, which previously contained only the dark orange limo, now contained two layers: a bottom dark orange layer (with aprox the same volume that the limonele had), and a top clear layer, with white flakes floating in it.

Now that I think about it, these small "flakes" (and a small white particle residue layer under the flake layer, floating on the limonele layer), must be fumaric acid precipitating out of the water (the top layer), because the temp is way lower than what it was when SWIM saturated the water with fumaric acid.

Any insights?

Thanks.

Luck,
~Dug

Was thinking the same thing.

As to the rest: Freeze it, see what happens.... And stop doing extractions in the Bermuda Triangle!

Hahah all right, freesing atm, thanks.

As a side note, I used hydrated lime. Any chance this might have messed up the procedure, or was it the right stuff to use?

Cheers.

~Dug

Not sure, but I think most lime that you can buy at the store is hydrated. All it means is that water has been absorbed into the lime; in any case, it wouldn't make any difference at all, since water is to be added anyway.

ok, so I froze it.

The bottle contents turned into a big bottom orange layer, which is frozen, and an upper clear layer which is unfrozen and smells like limonene+vinegar.

So was the stuff I got out the first time (now I almost completely strained the rest) mostly water+vnegar+MHRB?

Odd, didn't expect that much water to run through with almost no limo.


So what's the score here? What's next?
What do I do with the excess water?


Luck,
~Doug

It could be put aside 'til mixture gets a bit more dry, evaped to reduce volume then basified and thrown back in to be absorbed, if one were so inclined. Or, if curious: evap, basify as a paste, wash with a bit of limonene, and salt to retrieve any potential content.

The unfrozen layer should be nothing but limonene, but vinegar? where did that come from? If the smell of vinegar is still present from the initial vinegar wash, it hasn't been full neutralized by the lime. In any case, it would be frozen in the bottom layer. SWIM also doesn't understand why the bark was simmered in lime water, though he can't imagine it being a serious problem, if at all.