Is it safe, medically speaking, to smoke Changa while on an MDxx substance?

It has been observed/reported that it is dangerous to ingest Amphetamines/Stimulants with a MAOI/RIMA, does this still apply to vaporized RIMA's or MAOI's?

Changa: being a mix of dmt and cappi vine/leaf(RIMA) extracts infused on a herb bed.

It would depend very much on the MAOI action: whether it inhibits MAO-A (which targets tryptamines), MAO-B (which metabolizes phenethylamines) or both. Also, irreversible MAOIs are more dangerous since they perform a longer lasting inhibition.

In general, no, it's not a good idea. MD* will pump 5-HT into synapses and MAOIs would prevent 5-HT, MDxx or both from being metabolized, producing higher concentrations of 5-HT, increasing the probability of suffering serotonin syndrome. The route of administration does not affect IMO, as long as the substance gets to the brain and does its thing.

I had an accident involving heavy tachycardia from taking pseudoephedrine and blue lotus, so I'd be wary of these combinations.

The last time I took some MDMA I thought about vaping some changa, ended up vaping FB

As Gray Static above said, it depends on how much MAOI is working in your body. I for one didnt feel comfy testing that out and opted for the FB instead.

Remember, smoked/vaped harmalas go a long way. Be carefull.

Ive done it. It was a crazy experience but I also didnt know it could cause damage until a few days later when I was browsing the nexus.I felt no ill effects.

yeah straight FB always seemed like the better route for taking the MDxx experience deeper.

See the thing is, this is something to keep in mind when sharing the Shpice with others at a gathering or a festival, people who are partaking of the MDxx substances are delightfully enthusiastic about well.... just about everything, and that is a great platform to blast off of and interact with in the right circumstances, but it would be just awful to ruin a persons night by not realizing that they were on a substance that would medically speaking pose a danger to their health and well being in interaction with the MAOI's in changa.

just something to keep in mind.... be safe...

Dont do it!

I think as with any combination it can be done safely, but it would be wise to start small i.e. Low dose of mdma and 1:1 standard caapi leaf changa. I wouldn't go sessioning the 20x caapi leaf on 150mg of MDMA. I would probably also wait until after the MDXX whatever has peaked.

It's not something that I'd do though, as I don't use any MD-X substances anymore.

dont take maoi and mdma -_-

why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome


The combination of MAOIs and other serotonin agonists or precursors pose a particularly severe risk of a life-threatening serotonin syndrome.

MDMA is a serotonin agonist.

I understand that, but I also understand that the actives in caapi leaf aren't fully fledged MAOI's and are to the more informed refered to as RIMA's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIMA

You can see there that the harmaloids are in that list near the end of the article.

Where as this doesn't excuse them from causing harmful seratonergic effect, I have heard of bad reactions involving oral consumption of harmaloids and MDMA, but I've never heard of a bad MDMA/Changa reaction, at least one that was anywhere near on par with full seratonin syndrome.

As I'm sure we all know, Changa's presence has been very prominent on the festival scene. I'm sure there must have been many instances of people using this combo without any second thought, yet I'm still to hear of any bad reactions either by news articles or word of mouth. I only hear warnings like the above which to me seem only theoretical and slightly irrelevent.

From your own link:

"While safer than general MAOIs, RIMAs still have highly dangerous and sometimes fatal interactions with many common drugs; in particular, they can cause serotonin syndrome or hypertensive crisis when combined with almost any antidepressant or stimulant, common migraine medications, certain herbs, or even most cold medicines (including decongestants, antihistamines, and cough syrup)."

If RIMAs are dangerous with antidepressantes (SSRIs), that while a different mechanism of action, effectively do something similar to MDxx but in a lower scale (increase serotonin in the synapses), I'm afraid doing MDxx with RIMAs is still dangerous.



If you take all the people in the world that has taken both MDMA and changa at any time, you'll get very few thousands. Now, tried both at once? That would be around hundreds if you are lucky. Lack of "accident" reports proves nothing in this case.



You seem to forget even people in this community calls changa what in fact is enhanced leaf. Also, the extra steps involved are completely unnecessary for the dealer to sell his merchandise.



Maybe you're right, but basic neurochemistry says you aren't, so understand people's lack of support. I wouldn't do that combo and I've done quite a bit of weird shit already.

Basic neurochemistry better do itself some experiments before it confirms anything, however by my understanding I stick by what I said in my first post for caution.

Unless someone with a bad reaction from reasonable amounts of the substances in question comes forward, I wouldn't worry. However it's important to know that harmaloids have a strong impact on all psychedelics and the amounts of substance taken with a RIMA should always be reduced anyway. I certainly can't forsee someone having a crisis using say 50mg MDMA with 1 hit of changa as seems to be what the zero tolerence posts above seem to be suggesting.

It's for this reason swim decided to make a caapi-free changa in addition to his regular stuff. I wasn't aware of the possibilities with amphets and such.

In answer to the OPs question, I would say 'yes' provided that the following conditions are fulfilled.Of the 5 caveats listed, 4 are controllable and the 5th is a function of your genetics.

1.You are certain that your MD** is MDMA.

2.You reduce the dose of MDMA taken- 50-75mg seems to be appropriate.

3.You dont use a concentrated caapi in the changa (by changa I mean caapi leaf: FB DMT only).

4.You imbibe the changa at least 4 hours after ingesting the MDMA.

5.You are not lacking in the cytochromic enzyme required to metabolize the harmala alkaloids.

I have tested 10x caapi changa, plain caapi leaf changa and peppermint leaf. I find caapi leaf and peppermint leaf virtually indistinguishable strength and lengthwise, so in my case 1x probably isn't even active.