This will bee the second dream I am posting here, I am really looking for clarification more than instructions or how-to's...I understand that those are my responsibility to look up. Hope I don't start any fires....


I dreamt last night I was in the land of shadows. I found myself SWIMing along through a vast interconnected web, not unlike the the Internet (VERY similar, as a matter of fact! ).

Beehold! Beefore me I find a wondrous tome: a vast document containing an off-line searchable index of much of the Hive forum archives (up to early 2004[?] or so)

Therein I find:

(author forgotten, most unfortunately: any bee who is familiar with this procedure would be a saint if they helped one give credit where credit is due...)



One wonders if this could bee an excellent(?) way to salt clean mesc. HCL directly from d-limonene pulls? (i.e. from a 69Ron tek)

One also wonders if the d-limonene was then (vacuum?) filtered if it would not yield slightly orange-tinted mesc. HCL crystals? (wash, wash, re-x, yadda yadda yadda)

When one reads **this tek**, one wonders if such a titration could be done in this manner using HCL with this gassing device? (apologies if that is a stupid question--or worse, if that is EXACTLY what has just been described...)

Loosely Related Side Notes:
The main reason one references the dual solvent crystallization posts is to ascertain if this "gasser" could be used to slowly gas the d-limonene without over-acidifying the reaction, as is accomplished in the referenced tek via drop-wise addition of sulfuric acid, keeping the pH above 6(ish).

One has considered at brief length the relative purity/safety of the HCL gas produced via this tek, as it recommends the usage of hardware store-bought muriatic acid...however, one's current conclusion is that, as reagent grade HCL can be made from regular muriatic acid **like so**, the gas produced should also be reagent grade; the reasoning being (so you don't have to watch the video) that HCL gas, which fumes out of muriatic acid, is hygroscopic:

You can put two containers--one containing distilled H2O, the other store-bought muriatic acid; equal liquid amounts--into a larger airtight container and pure HCL gas will, over a period of weeks, migrate over into the dH2O--leaving the two equal liquid amounts with an equal concentration of HCL (1/2 the original concentration of the mur.acid) Thus, it should follow that this gas produced via the quoted tek will be pure, reagent grade HCL, no?

Is it possible that the quality of the Calcium Chloride employed would affect the purity of the produced gas??

And, in further reference to the gasser, if this method does indeed work, could better results be accomplished via bubbling the HCL up from the bottom using a glass tube of some sort, or can good yields bee achieved simply by introducing the gas somewhere substantially below the surface of the d-limonene?

Apologies if this is a totally outdated method (I mean, I know it's not brand new, or a startlingly fresh discovery or anything...) or is incredibly dangerous to reasons of which one is ignorant, but one could not find very much via FSE --> "HCL gas" "HCL gassing" etc.

Kind regards from the spirit world,

-poorfish

In the Nook , a member called "Me!" devoted lots of time in HCl gassing. In one of th experiments he let HCl gas diffuse through the liquid phase, that is he didnt even bubble it through: he "replaced" the air in the jar/vessel with HCl gas and sealed the vessel. The result was a slow gassing by diffusion which led to bigger crystals if i remember correctly.

The thread mentioned and "me!"'s experiments can be found easily over the nook but i think one needs to be registered to view those threads.



All in all what you propose seems to be correct. I think that M HCl can be gassed from limonene.

Interesting, one will be sure to investigate further over at the Nook.

So this dreamer you speak of flushed the salting jar with HCL gas and then sealed allowing the gas to acidify the d-limonene, force-precipitating the alkaloid salts out of solution--is this correct? (forgiveness please, this bee's chemistry knowledge is entirely self-acquired, i.e. non-academic)

Without knowing whether this was how "Me!" performed this extraction (hoping more Nex-er's will join in this discussion btw), would best/better results be accomplished by flushing the salting jar with a slow, continuous flow of HCL gas...using something **like this**, except scaled down and less, um...drunk--*OH* and with the PVC drying tube used to dry the air BEFORE it goes into the HCL gassing jar...I dunno maybe its just me, but the idea of filling a tube of PVC plastic with an acidic gas and then using that product for any purpose just makes one shiver...

Anyways...would flushing with a slow continuous flow of HCL gas prior to the introduction of the alkaloid-saturated d-limonene into the salting vessel, and then allowing the gas to continue to (slowly) bubble through the solvent (from the bottom up?) achieve a middle ground of sorts? I.e. moderately large/good sized, relatively clean crystals, without the time it would take for a "slow gassing" by air diffusion in a sealed vessel? ...although one understands that time, to a large extent, is a a factor in the formation of large, pure crystals; more specifically as one understands it, larger/purer crystals are made by slower precipitation, yes?

Two questions in summation to the above ramblings:

1. Will flushing the salting vessel with HCL gas prior to the introduction of alkaloid-saturated d-limonene, and then continuing to bubble gas through the solution from the bottom with the vessel loosely sealed (loose enough to allow excess gas build-up out, but not fresh air in) over-acidify the d-limonene and also extract the nastiness one wishes to avoid?

2. How long would the "slow gassing" via a flushed, then sealed, vessel already containing the d-limonene take to complete? --> More specifically, would it be visually obvious when the salting was complete? One is somewhat vary of the seal n' wait method, as it was hoped that occasional pH checks could be performed during the gassing process to make sure it stayed just below neutral without getting too acidic....this would be a simple gas titration, yes? (:arrow: forgivenesses, one's knowledge of proper terminology is quite weak).

Kind regards from the spirit world,

-poorfish

lots of good info on gassing out there, we've beat it to death at nook
imo the np inclusion into crystals is undesirable, and hard to clean

spend some time reading there, if you still have questions let me know

So would you say that, once you step beyond the theoretical stage, gassing is too much work for too little payback? (the goal being pure or near-pure crystals that are easily cleaned up)

Dg, I've read a few of your threads (I'd be posting **here** were I not still confined to the nursery...) and I'm starting to believe, as you seem to, that dual-solvent forced precipitation is definitely the way to go.

Though one has had yet to have performed this sacred extraction (silly reasoning--one thought it would be prudent to read *all* of the research/associated material before beginning--crazy, right?), one feels that he is nearing the precipice from which he will jump forth into the land of well-informed, proper-procedure, *SAFE* at-home extractions.

Thanks to the helpful everyones.

-poorfish

gassing was always just extra steps
extra set up, and extra cleaning
but,gassed material can be just as clean as anything

many ways to skin a cat they say