I meet people in hyperspace and they seem real enough. They can communicate and teach and they seem to be outside my own consciousness.
But, I also meet people in my dreams. They also seem to be outside of me, until I awake.

Many people have strong opinions on the existence of the 4th dimensional beings. I have changed my opinion many times on this issue. I have felt the presence of god. But I've also seen the Schizophrenia in my other encounters. Are they manifestations of my subconcious? What do you think

I have never met a person in hyperspace. I have met many entities, but none of them are even remotely human. Many of them have appearances and behaviors that are beyond my imagination. It is this “beyond my imagination” aspect that leads me to believe in the reality of entities.

However, it’s not that simple. It really depends on the depth of the experience. The less deep an experience, the more my own mind/subconscious seems to play a role in what I see. At a certain depth, it’s clear that I’m visiting my mind’s interior. Slightly deeper, and the entities are a strange hybrid of my mind and “something else”. But my deepest experiences are self-evidently real.

So to answer the poll, I’d have to say “All of the above”.

I'll go with the subconscious. It's the theory I struggle less with, and seems like the simplest explanation. The "beyond my imagination" aspect does not really convince me otherwise, as the complexity of our brains is surely beyond my imagination. What we call "imagination" is mostly what we succeed in making conscious, but a lot more goes on under there. And it seems normal that these experiences seem "real" - they play with precisely the part of us that "builds" our idea of reality.

That being said, I'm also tempted to say that we can't know, because the idea of the unconscious is merely a modern model of our psyche. I'm also open to the other ideas, and of course I "experience" trips as such often, but this is my sober, rational self speaking

gibran2, do you agree that what you just said fits best in the "subconscious manifestations"?

I have not smoked DMT (I intend to do it, I'm just waiting for someone to leave my house soon) but I think it is probable that these beings are independent. Why?

• People say they sometimes see humans (on DMT experiences) and therefore assume that they are subconscious manifestations, but, what if they are, in reality, "aliens" or "alternative dimension beings" that took a human form because they can do that? Imagine for a moment that these beings have the technology/ability/capacity to transform themselves into human forms but not really being human. Isn't that a possibility? Of course it is.

The thing is, sometimes people smoke very low doses of DMT and report kaleidoscopic patterns and other kinds of images that are in no way near as real as a freaking alien octopus operating your body in a cosmic lab... so? How can one be a "subconscious manifestation" and the other be a "hyperspatial contact". That is like suggesting that the validity of the experience depends on the dose and how it affects your brain and mind... I don't think is that important to KNOW if they are real (independent) or imaginary (subconscious)... unless you are working with the substance to fulfill a purpose: Shamanic Healers - (they mostly believe the visions are REAL, that belief would help them cure the illness). On the other hand Psychological Therapists - (they mostly believe the visions are subconscious projections, and can therefore get a better picture of the psyche).

In short, I suppose it is not really that important to keep on trying to understand if the visions are real or not UNLESS you are working with them with a purpose other than tripping balls. Now I guess that if one wants to know if these visions are real or not just because of philosophical thirst... well good luck with that. But yeah, I think that before we, as humanity, determine if the psychedelic visions are real or not real, there is a lot of things that should be researched about the brain and mind themselves.

That was a tough vote as I feel there is a thread of truth in all of those choices and an infinite amount of variables not listed as choices I believe my dreams are the true mirrors of self and my dreams are NOTHING like my Spice journeys.
My dreams are always triggered by something that I experience prior to each nights sleep. A song, a conversation a snippet of an article etc. I never know where my trips are headed but, for me a breakthrough is when a separate reality opens up and I am suddenly immersed in it , not an ego death which is different. Full contact with beings NOT of my making. Physically being touched, communicated with. Human figures and "spirit" entities. What is real? The dog and pony show of TV news...is that really real? The universe fact or fiction?? Maybe it's just the story we made up, the one we make up as we go along....as above, so below..as long as we all believe in gravity we will not float away.
Aetherbound

No – I think it’s both. Usually dependent on dose, but not always. Lower doses lead to subconscious manifestations, and high doses lead to self-evidently real alternate realities populated with extremely advanced entities.

@ Shayku – it is true that the brain is incomprehensibly complex, but do you believe that it is complex enough to produce detailed worlds of extreme specificity, coherence, and consistency? Especially when you consider that these worlds are unlike anything ever seen before in this world? If your answer is yes, then how do you begin to explain this?

Either way, something remarkable and beyond our comprehension is going on when we partake of DMT.

I do have a philosophical thirst that may never be quenched. This is one of my most pressing questions about DMT because I have gotten both answers like gibran2 mentioned. It's not always dependant on dose though.
Yes, we are seeing things beyond what our normal, concious mind can articulate.

Spice entities are IMO realer than the "reality" that we perceive on an everyday basis, and in no way are a manifestation of our own human psyche. I also feel that spice is not the only way to reach this higher plane or "spirit world" and true masters of the self can do so without the use of psychedelics. To me, psychedelics are like keys to a lock, but once the door is unlocked it can be opened again and again without the key...

there are many levels to the dmt experience. I believe there's room for all opinions because it actually contains all possibilites.

on a simpler level there is what we think it is what we want it to be and what it really is you can get any or all of this depending on dose set, setting and a whole bunch of other possible contributing factors.

are the entities metaphoric reflexions and creations of the deepest realms of our minds ?

are they real energy beings residing in an unseen energy field that spans the universe ?

are they sentient bots created by highly advanced beings set up to monitor hyperspace for activity by biologic lifeforms ?


is it external to our mind? thats the million dollar question.


I go around this merry go round every day . its a blessing and curse all wrapped in one sanity stretching package.

Hmmm..I find the list of choices inadequate and dualistic.

list more there are plenty of them

@Felnik: I believe you mean infinite of them.

So far, no entity contact for me. I've had trips where I've been crawling around on the floor, didn't know which way was up, forgot that I even took DMT, and thought that I was involved in a "phase shift" of the entire universe involving the laws of physics changing before my eyes. But never have I even had the slightest inkling that I was seeing or communicating with an entity.

What does this mean for entity contact? If they were external, why would they avoid me?

@TheAppleCore, mantids and hummingbirds are natural enemies! Source

^ LOL, that's crazy! Now I've got an answer to my question...

WOW~!
thats some smart birds and bugs

TrustLoveMan

This question is a very tricky one indeed. From my own experience and journeys I have encountered different beings and entities along my entheogen path of self discovery which have seemed very external and of independent being. But I think everything is apart of us and we are apart of everything... So in essence anything in which we experience is ultimately a reflection of ourselves. I feel we manifest our own reality and experience of life through our intentions, heart and consciousness...


Much Peace and Compassion

for close to 10 years i used the approach that its all external - i made very little progress and faced the fear alot
now - i use an approach formed on the most successfull spacekadet i know of - antrocles

now - im making leaps and bounds of progress - thanks guy (bro )

What I said in another thread:

"@ Shayku – it is true that the brain is incomprehensibly complex, but do you believe that it is complex enough to produce detailed worlds of extreme specificity, coherence, and consistency? Especially when you consider that these worlds are unlike anything ever seen before in this world? If your answer is yes, then how do you begin to explain this?"

Gibran2 - Yes, I think it's complex enough for that. It's complex enough for it when we're dreaming after all, though of course the "flavor" is very different, at least for me, and hyperspace feels much more clear than a dream. But yes, I think our brains can do that. I'm not sure how to explain it. One element may be that our brain plays a big part in "ordering" some type of DMT-induced chaos into that coherence with whatever tools it still controls. Or it may be that DMT enhances certain cerebral activities that underlie our relationship with reality, overriding our perceptions with these proto-perceptions where only the most fundamental archetypes exist. Ultimately, I don't know, but let me ask you this : Do you entertain the idea, as many (here) do, that reality exists in our minds? Because reality too presents some things that seem to be beyond my imagination, be it via science, art or social phenomena. If you believe reality could be in our minds, how do you explain that complexity? On the other hand, if you believe that neither hyperspace nor reality resides in our minds, don't you find that a reductive view of what we are? I'm asking - I'm not really sure where I stand myself