Not a question just a thought from the head, please add of course as its only short, due to my poor/ crude writing capabilites.

A human trys to understand and work out DMT.
It seems that everyting a human comes into contact in this life has to be "figured" out so to speak.

I suppose maybe its the faith i.e like being christian or other relgion, is when we do not try to work out why so. I mean, therefore if you have FAITH in somthing you will just understand it as, just as it is accept it as it is. Mayb you wont question it if you accept it as is, maybe one does question it, agian maybe taht depends on the person and there strength of faith.

But how can we ever figure anything out if its not from this "cosmic plane" so to speak. So if i was an atom/ or cell, i could hypothetically talk with other atoms and cells. But being human I cant, nor can the atoms talk to me, they are still very much alive just as you and me are tho, anyway.

This leads me to think, why bother in trying to understand how DMT works or why it works. I do not have a life time for the whys, but I have a life time for experences. I can be happy in accepting that us as a human race do NOT have all the answers to life and its dmt, or the answer to LIFE its self, for as we no we cant preceive it, we are the ones living it. Therefore I am happy enough i knowing that this is one thing that can just be left unanswered (imo) (maybe for now that is)

This does not mean those trying to figure out DMT are wasting time, more to the fact, of Thank YOU for taking your time to work this chemical out.

But however , maybe the working out of why it does what it does what hhappens etc will NEVER get answered, and that human thoughts, ideas, works, understandings will always fail to produce the actually answer because we can not begin to think in terms of DMT its self.

I am science person, and beleive that sciene can produce answers to most, some beign correct and incorrect at times, and eventually maybe it will give a true understanding of this molecule.

Ive done little reading in these relems and it was just a thought in my head i thought id like to share and read others thoughts.

Just basically i decided that im not going to question why the shit happens for now, it just happens, I either believe in it or I dont, I either accept it or i dont, I believe in it (faith) or I dont. No pussy footing. And what is with us as a species trying to work everything out even more so with this stuff when its soo out there as it is, im just thankful enuff to Gaia we have it here

R*R
Much love
L MODS PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE GENERAL TAV PLEASE i post in wrong section. MY bad

In my opinion, the whole purpose of life is to spend it enjoying figuring out all the wonders of life itself.

^ yea man
i mean what else is there? what else are you doing?

Would be boring to stop and focus on only one religion or beliefsystem in particular
the picture would fade. go figure..

I believe the questions and answers behind some of the most mysterious chemicals on earth, including DMT and some psychedelics/entheogens could very well be the keys to our own lives/nervous systems/spirituality. But many of these questions, if not all, can be and will be, eventually answered by science. Just because we aren't ready or mature enough to understand how we would figure these thing out, doesn't mean that we won't or can't.
The joy of life is definitely, in part, to the mystery. If we already knew everything...life would be very boring indeed. I love and accept the challenge of physical life.

I have a strong desire, a craving, to intellectually understand these matters. The experience seems secondary in importance to me. And I believe the intellect does have the ability to understand any mystery.

Some may like the mystery of a woman's form underneath her clothes, but I want to see all her naked glory. This craving to understand is an almost sexual urge. A need to understand this amazing Universe in every conceivable way, from every vantage point.

The Renaissance Masters were not content with mystery. Look at the result of their grim dissections! Raw knowledge becomes the fertile field of every artistic fruit you could name. Life wouldn't be boring knowing everything, because there is always the art to which you can apply your knowledge. Could not this Universe be but the artwork of a God?

That’s quite a bold statement you make. And I don’t see how it could possibly be true.

The human brain is finite. It is limited in it’s complexity. It is made up of a finite number of neurons with a finite number of connections. The brain has limits, and since the intellect is constrained by the size and complexity of the brain, it seems reasonable that there are many mysteries that will forever remain outside of our understanding.

This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t continually strive for greater understanding. But we should always move forward with the humble knowledge of our human limitations.

You say that the experience is of secondary importance to you. I see it differently – for me, the experience is everything. My experiences allow me to briefly participate in the divine mystery, and I can think of no greater gift.

"I have a strong desire, a craving, to intellectually understand these matters. The experience seems secondary in importance to me. And I believe the intellect does have the ability to understand any mystery."

Care to explain why?

"Life wouldn't be boring knowing everything, because there is always the art to which you can apply your knowledge. Could not this Universe be but the artwork of a God?"

Hmm..I dont find that a suitable statement when I really think about it. For one thing, the term "god" can be so ambigous that whatever the truch of this place is a religou person could say "oh thats god!"..Im not even going to get into the fact that what passes as "art" is so varried and personal an opinion..so sure..it could be the "artwork" of a "god"..but thats like saying the sky is blue..so what?

I think if there is new art to be made, then you dont "know everything"..the greatest works of art seemto be made in states of great confusion, perlexion..depression and longing etc..the artist is always grasping desperatily out towards that abyss that seems just over the horizon, out of reach..

anyway..there are geometic shapes that humans are unable to even visualize in 3 dimensions..so the idea of something the intellect cannot grasp is supported by that..unless you can provide some substancial arguement against it I am not convinced.

The experince should come first..for it is the thing in and of itself..everything else is just what you paint over it..gnosis is empowering..rigid belief and dogma is not.

I dunno how anyone can try to intellectually understand something they have never experienced.

I actaully see science as quite limiting in certain ways, almsot building it's own conceptual walls that are going to and are curently blocking "scientists" from being able to grasp a part of the picture. It's departed from it's roots and become nearly religous and devoid of elegance. Reductionism can tell us about this thing, and about that thing..but reductionism is NOT capable of telling a good story. I can observe you,make notes of th red shirt you might have worn yesterday, what you ate..where you went, who you saw etc..even make note of how you appeared to react emotionally throughout the day..but can I then reduce from that a story about how your day was?..Sure I can, but its going to be a shitty story. It's not going to have the magic that YOU'RE version of the day had as you experienced it..my story of your day wont have that elegance that only exists as felt experience.

I dunno if you can make sense what I just said or not..but I really hope someone out there does get it.

The real trick to life is to not live in the know, but to live in the mystery.

If everything had an answer, the world would be full of disappointed people.



^Listen to him. Quite wise words.

The only way to comprehend DMT on a human level is to approach the question literally, whilst void of any emotion and passion.

If we discovered an answer to what Spice is, we will have simply unlocked a door to a billion new questions of why.

I am and life is.

I think these next 10 years DMT and Ayahuasca will change things so dramatically it will be a decade remembered as "The Spiritual Enlightenment" or something like that. I also predict that Rick Strassman and Terence McKenna will be considered heroes and/or Great Thinkers of the era. I think there is actually a suggestion (I don't remember who said it, maybe David Nichols) that it will be called "The Psychedelic Renaissance". In any case, I'm 99% sure that the 2010's will be remember by DMT and how it shook EVERYTHING, from Physics to Psychology.... from Philosophy to Religion. Yeah, salvia and mushrooms and other psychedelics will have their importance... but this decade will be a party (metaphorically speaking) and the main stage is reserved for a rock-star called: DMT. I suspect things will get REALLY interesting and cool from 2013 to 2019.

Interesting years await.

I love everyone here. Stellar thread!

If there is anything Mama Aya has taught me, it's that it's polite to keep a little bit of the mystery mysterious for the next person. It's a celebration of all things so profound that our finite rational minds could never possibly contain... LIFE, in real time, not a conceptual slideshow open to debate from a detached perspective.

Cheers.

I'm thinking of the thing McKenna's Time Wave Zero is pointing to. Maybe the Singularity, maybe through cybernetic technology, where the human brain has access to undreamt of computational ability, we attain a new level. Maybe a collective consciousness. Surely within our life time we shall witness the advent of smart drugs, cybernetics, longevity vaccines, perhaps biological transcendance.

Maybe we shall only discover a new horizon, but that's okay too. It is the desire to always know more that I'm trying to express.



Haven't you tried to get your head around Quantum Mechanics? The mind can appreciate novel and alien ideas without having experienced them directly. Anyway, it is fun to have preconceptions blown away by actual reality. To have an idea about something first, and then find the experience completely unexpected. I find it exhilarating.

All you get from that though is an (assumed) analogy. Doesnt really involve any knowing at all.

wow....this is one juicy thread!! i simply MUST throw my hat into this beautiful ring...

fractal has the bulk of my sentiment down on paper (as per usual). in fact, i will use his term of 'reductionism' to state my thoughts on the matter...

i have long dispensed with trying to figure anything out in hyperspace. the knowledge there is truly on another dimension and, though it's catharsis can most definitely have an effect on your life here, it's KNOWLEDGE is for the most part unrelateable. different dimensions- different rules. kind of like that cool video we've all seen with carl sagan discussing the various dimensions and how a 'flatlander' simply CANNOT understand a 3D being unless that 3D being comes along and scoops up our dear little flatlander and pulls him out of his 2D world and allows him to experience the 3D world for a time.

this is what we do with DMT. we consciously allow ourselves to be scooped up and taken into another dimension of reality with an entirely new set of rules. rules that fly in the face of everything our 'quantum' minds can come up with here. things that defy explanation. things that defy our mind's ability to define.

not because our minds can't grasp them (obviously- we have to be able to somewhat grasp them in order to have the experience at all) but, when we return to our world. our little linear-time 3D world with it's little linear-time 3D form of speech and communication....well.....it's like our dear friend the flatlander trying his best to describe what 'up' means to his little flat pals.

the real work begins when the mind is clear. clear of all that we 'know' here. because where we are going is NOT here. absolutely not. the less HERE you take with you, the more THERE you can experience. it's just as simple as that...

we want so desperately to APPLY things. to LEARN. to DO. we take this attitude with us into our spiritual work and walk away overwhelmed by our inability to translate the ineffable into 3D-ese.

if there's one thing i have learned from a whole lot of work at this point, it's this:

there is nothing to learn. it is all within you. allow yourself to LET GO of what you know. it will not leave you. once a switch has been flicked on, it will stay on. trust that. let go of 'knowing'. embrace and practice 'unknowing'.

with the deepest LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!

Guys thanks for all your replies much apprecated this!

Like all that say it: Love the site love the people and the attituted.

Thanks again for posting on this.

much love xx