Terence Mckenna has an interesting hypothesis on a possible link. As far as I know science has not proven a connection between the two. Maybe not biologically but consciously there has got to be one. I encourage you to try DMT while dreaming, lucidly or otherwise.

Since being somewhat obsessed with DMT I have probably done it three or four times in my dreams. I have had OEVs (in my dream of course). The last of them has been where I believe I smoked an herbal blend of changa, and all these weird patterns were darting through. The odd thing was it was my dream, the entirety of it, not something within, but it became what I was seeing. There were probably 100 images being presented to me in less than 5 seconds. They were psychedelic-like images like geometric patterns, shapes, hieroglyphics, very colorful and detailed.

Now for me, I have not been to hyperspace. With no preconceived notions of a breakthrough other than reading about people's experiences, I have not yet experienced a breakthrough, so could I possibly breakthrough while being lucid, and if so, what would it be like? Perhaps I should try this before I experience a breakthrough and see what happens.

I have also taken painkillers, tried shrooms (Ive never tried shrooms), been inebriated, etc., and wow, you actually feel like you are on something, you feel the effects. Would these chemicals be released in our brain when we are dreaming of them to make us feel this way, or do these even exist in real life?

Well here's the video, the sound quality is bad, sorry.

DMT and Dreaming

Before I had the chance to try DMT, I dreamt I smoked it and had a crazy psychedelic experience. It was very rewarding and whatnot, but in retrospect, it not only pales in comparison to the real thing, but was pretty different in character as well. Although this neither proves nor disproves your theory, I thought it was relevant

I dreamed of drinking Ayahuasca in my bathtub the other night. I remember thinking, "I didn't drink enough!" so I kept drinking, until I experienced the same vision expansion and color shift that is IDENTICAL to coming up on DMT. The palette is unmistakable.

I've had many dreams like this...

I usually have dreams I'm on LSD for a couple days after I trip. It definitely is possible to be tripping on your dreams, which raises a lot of questions on what a state of consciousness really is, how it really is induced, etc.

it's definitely possible to remember a trip in your dreams.

whenever iv had dreams where iv taken drugs the experience is very different to the real thing.

Its always fascinated me how alot of people seem to encounter an increase in peculiarities in regards to dreaming after psychedelic use, especially after dmt. Im sure alot of factors play into this, not just the ingestion of substances..i mean who can really say for sure. Still its an intriguing question as to why things like lucid dreams, sleep paralysis, synchronicities, and just WIERD dreams in general seem to occur more readily after taking substances like this. My dreams just get more and more intense and deep the more i seem to imbibe in psychedelia. I really wish i'd focus more on lucid dreaming because thats sooo interesting as well

i also smoked it in a dream before actually trying it like gobalswg said he/she did. It was over a year ago with a girl i've had alot of syncs with, and it was her turn to take a hit but she was distracted- so i giggled and snuck in a hit before her and she said heyyyyy, laughed, then took hers. It was only a medium sized toke so no breakthrough-if that is even what would have happen anyway- but it was very much like the real thing. 64 days later the dream reoccured in a very similar way in real life.. she got distracted after her taking her first hit ever, but this time by the berries on the ground which were turning into bugs and scrambling all over.

I'd forgotten what distracted her in the dream exactly, but it was literally 10 feet away from the spot we were smoking at then. I didn't realize it was all like the dream until shortly after taking the toke while she was distracted. Oh for some reason back then i was under the impression that wierd syncs were happening every 64 days. i no longer think this..but that dream did occur at the end of one of these cycles, and i didn't realize that today was 64 days after the dream. so after i took the toke my calender alarm went off and alerted me that today was 64 days later, and i'd put the event as "not sure yet, we'll see". it was a big WTF moment of eeriness and cosmic alignment. Then i learned a week later i had counted the days wrong

thats the thing, most times i've taken something in a dream it is trippy but in an extremely different way than if i had taken it while awake. usually in dreams the whole thing just gets more ridiculous and falls apart into all of these extremely odd sequences with tons of people and things going on in ways that couldn't occur in waking reality

Here's a recent and relevant story...

I am going to wager than nighttime endogenous production of something strange and trippy IS POSSIBLE, provided the proper biochemistry is flooded through the system continuously over an extended period of time (or, maybe, additionally, luck, but luck is impossible to replicate). Case in point: Minxx's melatonin experiments. I will eventually make a giant post here for everyone and share all of my findings, but I am still in the processing of logging an abundance of variables, weird happenings, and trying to pinpoint what precisely is going on.

Horked down my usual serving of melatonin-rich cherries before bed last night, and it is possible there are still trace amounts of harmalas floating around my system. (*If THH can persist in the body for up to 48 hours?)

Melatonin is FANTASTIC for lucid dreams.

Around 3:30am, I found myself in an intense lucid dream. Cats are my power animals... they protect me. There were cats around me, everywhere, with backs arched and ready to attack, but they allowed a visitor: a giant rat with glowing green eyes. Upon eye contact with the rat I was fully conscious. (*Note that my personal trigger for "waking" in LDs is eye contact with another conscious entity, usually plants covered with eyes. This only started happening in my life AFTER I drank Ayahuasca.) The rat came to speak with me. We made eye contact. It was chilling.

I woke up--I keep my room extremely dark, covering/unplugging all electronics, etc.--and found myself swimming through a haze of OEVs, swirling fractals like a haze of smoke. Heavy presences lingered in the room, akin to a high dose of Caapi tea. I was very cold and my body felt heavy and stoned... like Caapi.

I stumbled to the bathroom, thinking, "this is way too intense and I need to get some rest," and fortunately managed to fall back to sleep. (*Fortunately, because, I didn't want to spend the next several hours in a trip, melatonin roulette.)

Basically, I have been taking melatonin every night, which can either put me right to sleep, knock me into a light trance, or send me flying to the moon in a fullblown tryptamine-like trip for 3+ hours (well beyond the 45-60 minutes it takes to metabolize melatonin, what are the explanations for that?).

The brain also produces melatonin while sleeping. 2-4am is peak production time.

There are so many variables impacting these experiences... but there seems to be a connection with chemical intake and dream states. Effects can be compounded by the biology of the person (going to say my diet here, CHERRIES are my melatonin source). Effects seem several times stronger (2x, 4x) depending on lunar phase of my body--naturally fluctuating hormone levels.

In conclusion: I think it's HELLA INTERESTING that I woke from a lucid dream INTO a psychedelic state of consciousness. I did not trip in my dream, but I awoke FROM a lucid dream INTO an altered state. Melatonin is CLEARLY involved. But the brain makes all of these chemicals anyway... especially in the middle of the night. And instead of just letting my brain make X amount of chemicals, I seem to be greatly assisting the process by eating more.

This happens to me sometimes. It's intense. Talk about a rude awakening!

Interesting! This was my first time.

How have entheogens impacted the quality and frequency of the experience for you?

Ok I have said this before and I dont expect peopel to believe me, but..I have endogenous tryptamine experiences. It happens at around 2-3am when it does happen(maybe 2 or 3 times a month)..It is VERY similar to some aspects of a mid-high dose mushroom or ayahuasca experience in the dark, yet without the saee level of anxiousness..

I am 100% convinved when this happens I am experiencing exactly what ancient peoples throughout history went into dark room retreats for. This is not a new thing for me either..its always happened. The visuals and visions are identical to those of tryptamine..very much like DMT and psilocin and not much like bufotenine at all, but a little less colorful than either of them..maybe 5meo has something to do with it..there is also a distinct harmala vibe to it which makes it very similar to ayahuasca..I have even drank ayahuasca late at night, fallen asleap and woken up into the exact same state from the ayahuasca..

I once had it happen and I was able to go very deep into it for about 2 full hours and bring most of it back..I just lay there and let it happen..i would dissolve into the geometry and then connect with this web of many many souls on the earth..then I would actaully become one of them and experience the life of another person..all while retaining so minor memory of what was actaully taking place..as if I was the participator and observer in the experience at the same time..It is facinating..this went on and on as I would go into it..assume the life of someone else linked up to this grid..come back out of it and roll over in bed etc, get back int the grid state and have the whole thing happen again..

Its not nearly as intense as smoking DMT or drinking a heavy brew or large mushroom dose..but it is as absorbing..its not as "healing" persay as taking entheogens..its more of a spiritual link up, but its not forcedand there is no real ego confrontation..the whole thing happens so smoothly..the visuals are absolutil beautiful..like putting on infared goggles that allow one to see hyperspace as we sleep..

This only ever happens after sleeping for a few hours, then suddenly waking up into the expereince at around 2-3am..if I get up, turn on the lights and do something..the experience will not come back when i go back to sleep..I must stay in bed in the dark for it to continue and deepen..

I also occasionally smoke DMT in my dreams..and it happens!..and I mean it HAPPENS..like in way that is sooo freaking awe inspiring..smoking DMT in dreams is like the most insane trips for me..

Lucid dreaming I have done my entire life..Ive gotten astral from that state and gone up into outer space, after flyign through the rainforst and visiting ntive villages..i flew way up above the earth and floated there looking back at the earth, and suddenly had some sort of spiritual awakening where this download of information hit me like a realization of earth as gaia..the mother and the primordial egg for all life on earth..and as such we might mature and leave that egg one day. There were spirits with me as well. I cam back down to earth after that slowly and floated back into my body.

Also minxx as far as I know melatonin is not active orally. Its active sublingaully..are you sure eating cherries is actaully peaking melatonin levels for you? have you tried it sublingually with pure melatonin as well? I used to take melatonin all the time and I can feel a slight body buzz from it before I even fall asleap..its mild but its there..a slight tryptamine body feeling..

I also eat aot of melatonin food like oats sometimes at night..and dont experiecne the same thing as when I take sublinugal melatonin.

Interesting things minxx and fractal.

Ive been thinking a lot about consciousness and dreaming and what possible links there could be.

I'm glad you didn't shun off melatonin as you promised, ms_manic_minxx. There is something about it...being one of the ten natural tryptamines it is hard to ignore it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptamines

Now melatonin is naturally released in the pineal gland, then why not DMT? Did our biology render the use of it unecessary as we evolved into our current state? We know melatonin regulates the sleep cycle, which is still not fully understood why this is being done.

Well the last few days Ive been experiencing a reoccurring thing. The blastoff of DMT, the carrier wave hitting and with full intensity, enough to realize the severity. The other night I dreamt of it happening while lucid. I woke up in a dream within a dream to a breakthrough coming on, I for some reason, withheld from this happening as I was confused and nervous this was happening in my dream.

Yesterday I smoked some DMT, I was tired, later took a short nap about an hour later, I was awoken by the people in my apartment, but still in a tired daze, straight out of rem sleep. As I was dozing off but still aware of my surroundings (water running, noise in the other room) I drifted into a lucid dream state. I was lying on the same bed observing my surroundings. Boom, the carrier wave comes to hit me, I surrender and see where it takes me. As I am undergoing this I lay my head back on the mattress and notice my pillow is gone, and the mattress has no sheets or blankets like it did in waking life. With an egyptian eye overlaying things, a numb feeling, and sleep paralysis, I feel like I just crossed over into a different dimension. The dimension was reality, now this really got me thinking...Haha

Interesting, everyone!

Melatonin is definitely orally active, at least the melatonin inside food sources, anyway, with a very good absorption rate. The cherries I'm eating are regularly marketed for jet lag and sleep difficulties.

Have yet to try it myself, but the whole darkroom idea as proposed by Mantak Chia is that, by extended exposure to darkness, one's melatonin levels rise. Once the brain reaches a critical threshold with melatonin, then the chemicals spill over and turn into pinoline... then 5-meo... then DMT... so it's a matter of building up natural reserves to have an endogenous experience, and we're all normally just way too depleted. People generally experience lots of great results with melatonin because we're underproducing, between artificial light and other things...

*shrug* Sounds worth exploring, to me!

yeah im thinking of doing my ow darkroom thing next winter for 2 or 3 days..locking myself into my room..or maybe I will go all out and go into some of the caving spots in the BC mountains..