Hello,
I believe you know a lot about this experience you have been having, but choose to be vailed to certain sides of your self that may be exciting. I have had similar experiences of the sun waking me up or else lose energy to an entity and I know it is more a neusance in this realm than people may think.

Timing is everything, it is the periodic cycles of the solar system. In the morning when we tune in to a solar connection, it is tinged with the vibration of the planet of the day. Typically this is taken to mean monday would be lunar at that first hour of day. Anyway the truth is that the part of your consciosness that resonates in this moment is the enlightened part.

The tree of life, qabala means to receive, has a dark half. If if did not have this it could never have enough space to realize its fruit. Kenneth Grant has done extensive work on relating these shadows to the 32 energies of the tree of life.

The method employed in meeting these qliphotic life sucking energies is psychosexual. The Jungian theory is employed. That is to say that these shadows are a part of us, and when we accept them and offer love, they can no longer take what they need.

I think what you experience at that time in your sleep with the snoring might be some sort of calcium reaction in your body from the sun, in order to create sexual energy.

I believe these qliphoth can be transfered through objects and people! They are like seeds in our garden we never knew about, imagine what some of those plants might contain?

Ann Shulgin does hypnotherapy with MDMA on people to do this very thing. Its called the individuation process, and the force is strong in you young jedi.

What more can I say? I changed my sleep schedule, mostly sleep around the time the sun comes up, but that changes. focusing on the belly every morning in meditation for a few months is supposed to help, and I have been naturally doing that during pranayama when I wake up after I pee. I read that if you go to bed and set an alarm for 1 or 2 hours later, wake up and read or do something that doesnt require movement, and give yourself suggestions such as " I will have a lucid dream" and then go to bed on that thought - it tends to happen the way you would expect. I tried it, it worked. Sleeping out in nature of course, that is a rare occation for most.

Why not just make a little hat out of aluminum foil with a coat hanger energy deflector? It’s easier, and from what I’ve heard, much more effective than the good ol’ bicarbonate bath & golden orb visualization.

So your belief system is superior and this persons is inferior, and so the way to maturely handle that is to try to publicly humiliate and shame them for not having your superior belief system? Charming...

seasalt negativly charges ions. Its proven to have an effect at calming people down and destressing them. I dunno about spiritual protection etc..

I still lean towards the fact that you let these things have whatever power they have over you..just as you do in the world of flesh..people cant controll you unless you let them. At least keep your witts up about yourself i your going to get involved in shamanism..

Really it doesnt matter if its reality lies inside or outside of you..that is all just details..by trying to focus on its validity since its outside of you is pointless..the problem itself is real either way..interior/exterior..doesnt matter, that dicotemy always places you in the centre. Weird logic, but hey, you get what you get.

In the past, before I ever took psychedelics, I commonly had night time experiences of encountering entities, or really scary realities while awake. They haunted me until I took psychedelics, now I have the courage and willingness to say yes to those experiences. As soon as I accept what I am seeing, not only does the fear go away, but it becomes the most beautiful thing. It happens to me commonly now. I just accept what I'm looking at and explore a different dimension. It's just a new level of existence that I've realized is possible to experience without going nuts. You're probably afraid you're going nuts, and your fear will increase that probability.

Something in you must accept what you're experiencing. I know that is very difficult, but that's all I can say. Something in you must say, "I don't care if this KILLS me, I'm not going to move". Last night I could see fear arising within, and as soon as I said yes to it, something broke through, and I had the sense that I literally became a creature made of light. It was the most mind blowing experience I've ever had, the biggest breakthrough ever, even surpassing any psychedelic trip, and it happened without any ingestion of drugs.

We are just beginning to understand understand things like psychoimmunology and the nature of psychosomatic illness. Folk medicine around the world functions on levels that we criticize as being ignorant and inferior to todays medicine and yet it is the foundation of health that got us to the population level that we know today. Not only that, but much of the sea salt and mal aire, and baths that have been criticized as well as Avatars original post is no different then the CURES as well as the symptoms experienced by those who need as well as provide treatments from curanderismo in latin america or shamans around the world. Yet we project and air of superiority in comparison to their belief systems while at the same time glorify the wisdom of these practices and taking from them the ethnobotanical knowledge these people have worked with EFFECTIVELY for thousands of years. As soon as we see some one within our own society exhibiting "symptoms and beliefs" of these primitive people we revere and emulate, we pathologize them as being mentally ill or potentially mentally ill. Avatar keep learning.

Frac excellent advice... keep on keepin on...

Sometimes it seems that half of the art/iconography in Tibetan Buddhism, and some similar Indian iconography, is of demons. They represent a kind of power of consciousness that destroys/crushes the ego and all the trips it creates. They appear to be scary, until one realizes what their job is. When we first confront these forces they are disturbing...they are going right to the core of our deepest illusions - like hatred, greed, lust, etc etc - to pull them out of us and rip them apart until we are free of them. Not something we willingly go along with at first. However, one can meditate on the demons/powers, eventually get to know them, integrate them, help them do their job. You can do it while wide awake, even. After all, they're ourselves. It could be seen as "a blessing"...probably millions of people are unfortunately too asleep to take advantage of an opportunity like this.

Good luck to you...it starts like this for many of us, it appears, myself included.

I am not addressing my beliefs vs. someone else’s beliefs, and I’m definitely not claiming that my beliefs are somehow superior to another’s beliefs. In fact, I’m saying nearly the opposite: When unsupported claims are made, one unsupported claim is no better than any other unsupported claim.

If you can explain to me, in a rational and plausible way, how soaking in a tub of bicarbonate and visualizing golden orbs is more effective in casting out evil spirits from the body than an aluminum foil hat with a coat hanger energy deflector, then I will be willing and able to modify my beliefs about how our physical world actually works.

So whether it’s bicarbonate baths, golden orb visualization, a Catholic exorcism, an aluminum foil hat with coat hanger energy deflector, cloves of garlic worn around your neck, quartz crystals held over your third eye, or anything else you can imagine or invent, you cannot claim that one method of evil-spirit removal is better than another without some objective support.

I agree that a nice bath with sea salt might be calming, but the advice given was not given as a prescription for achieving calmness. It was given as a prescription for “protection from outside influences of any sort”.

I really wasnt going to join in on this but I do feel strongly that if someone comes here with psychological problems looking for help then they should be advised appropriately and not recommended magic bath remedies.

I think this is the issue driving this thread. But I find it strange. I can't help but to think that if the original post had been:

"Help at night when I fall asleep I get the feeling that I am actually god, and we are all one. This scares the hell out of me."


Far fewer people would have considered him possibly "ill". I suspect many would just say "It's alright! Smoke more changa!'

It seems like because he expressed his belief that this was an "entity" somehow his issue is associated with illness. So far his only problem is fear? am I wrong? Who here runs to the doctor when the have a bad dream?

Are we hoping the doc will do something to help his "condition", or do we want the man to adjust his beliefs so society can be comfortable again?

I said earlier that I was taking it personal and I didn't know why, but now I do. If feeling a vibration and hearing a noise along with sensing a presence while in the states between wake and sleep indicate sickness......

then what do you think I should do about my many many experiences of Vibrations, loud noises, Leaving my body, flying around the world talking to entities... and viewing events that were actually happening while I was laying in my bed in a quasi-sleep state? "(without drugs) I'm I sick?

What do I need, a tinfoil hat or a chemical straitjacket?

And for anyone who feels inclined to indeed say I am Ill, I suggest YOU go to the shrink, tell them that your wings are broken and you are trapped in your body. Then you eat the pills.


Consensus reality will be chemically enforced.

Im sorry but no. People here would not suggest someone having problems with integration to use more substances, and if they did they would definitely not be speaking for the community.

As a psychologist, I feel that the problem is never about one being or believing differently than others, but its about how one can integrate his experiences, whatever they are, into his daily life.

The OP came here starting a thread exactly because he is having trouble integrating a certain experience, therefore this constitutes an important issue.

If he had said: "I see entities at night and its strange but I wake up and I dont mind it, I dont know what it is but it doesnt matter, I use the experience to be more alive in the moment and to appreciate life more", that wouldnt be a problem and I dont think others would (or should) be very concerned.

But when he is starting to feel that the entity is dangerous, and this is affecting his daily life, he cant sleep well, and so on, then I think, regardless of the discussion whether it is 'real' or not, its something that has to be dealt with (and one of the ways of dealing with it which could potentially help is going to a good health professional and discussing it)




I think by now you should already realize that this is definitely not the attitude people in the nexus have...




there ARE open minded doctors/psychologists, you know...



Again, its all about integration. Does it bother you, does it make you less healthy, less balanced, have problematic emotions, worsens your relations with others, or whatever? If so, then yes I would say in some way you have a problem. If not, then no, you are just having some different experience, like many people have in one way or another, and if you are fine with it, so be it.

Yes, you are wrong. Remember – in the original post “avatar” stated that he moved to a new state to get away from these “evil spirits”.

It’s one thing to hear voices and to feel afraid as a result, but it’s quite another to act on them. This is reason for concern.

"I am not addressing my beliefs vs. someone else’s beliefs, and I’m definitely not claiming that my beliefs are somehow superior to another’s beliefs."
No you are and not only that but you are stigmatizing and pathologizing anothers belief systems as SICK or ILL or wrong because it does not match your own. This post has nothing to do with mental illness and you have pushed it that direction because frankly I think people with beliefs you feel as inferior as threatening.

"If you can explain to me, in a rational and plausible way, how soaking in a tub of bicarbonate and visualizing golden orbs is more effective in casting out evil spirits from the body than an aluminum foil hat with a coat hanger energy deflector, then I will be willing and able to modify my beliefs about how our physical world actually works."

I could but I would have to using the belief system of others as wellas the rational system of other belief systems on how the world actually works that will probably not match your own. There are lots of world views on how the world actually works and that of western societies only one of MANY, and its not the only one, nor is yours the only one. The above method of cleansing you mock is no different then that of what I shaman in the amazon would recommend to some one. But because its not a shaman from the amazon... we should make fun of that person and not respect them? like I said charming....


"I agree that a nice bath with sea salt might be calming, but the advice given was not given as a prescription for achieving calmness. It was given as a prescription for “protection from outside influences of any sort”.

Sea salt and salt bath limpias or cleansing baths have been and are used in south and latin american cleansing ceremonies. The addition of salt has been used to clear people of negative "energies" as well as entities for a very long time, and is also a practice that has come over from africa as well as europe. Salt is considered pure, and white and protecting. In western occult practices circles of protection where made of salt. In house cleansing rituals in europe salt is thrown on the floor and swept from the house, then the house is cleared like an erased hard drive.

I believe that you are being culturally intolerant. , and insensitive to other peoples beliefs and that you are essentially telling them that they are crazy because they dont believe the world works the same way you do. You know Christians do the same thing...

So every shaman in the world who ACTS on spirits needs to be evaluated by a mental health professional huh?

Easy. Everyone knows that only crazy wacko people wear tin-foil hats. The same cannot be said about soaking in a tub of bicarbonate and visualizing golden orbs - this hasn't gathered yet such negative connotations. Therefore the latter has more chance to be effective.

ok, we agree.

I think you put it better then I could endlessness. That is what I am saying, yes integrate, overcome the fear. Then it's not a problem. Go talk to a Doctor about dealing with the fear... talk to you mom, talk to nexus. There are a lot of good doctors. But now nowadays when being slightly sad has been redefined into a illness, presenting yourself to a GP with this problem will likely get you sleeping pills.But, they might get a referral to you endlessness. And that would be helpful.

I just "heard" people here saying, "you are are probably biologically sick" not "you need to integrate".

Once again I admit my emotional investment in this and I'm glad we are talking about it. So we can integrate.






Seems logical to me. If you believe spirits are real maybe you can move away from them.(I don't think so) but once again you are making it about his belief. IF you believed in spirits you might see thinking you can out run a spirit as misguided not Ill.

You are confusing the actions of a practitioner and a “patient”. A shaman is a practitioner. The one “invaded” by evil spirits is the patient.

If someone said “The voice in my head told me to kill my parents, and I always do what the voice in my head tells me to do.” then yes, I would say that individual is in serious need of immediate medical attention.

If someone said “The voice in my head told me to jump off a bridge.”, again – medical attention.

If someone said “I moved with a days notice to California from Oregon because 'some sort of entity attached to me, or my aura/field and it keeps following me' ”, hmm… medical attention.

I don’t have any conscious or deliberate bias toward one set of beliefs or another. I’m pragmatic, and generally promote whatever works best. The original poster came to the Nexus with a problem, and I responded in the most rational and responsible way that I could.

To my knowledge, no one has ever died as a result of hearing evil voices. But people have died as a result of brain tumors that, as a symptom, may cause them to hear voices or other sounds. To my knowledge, no one has ever died because of “negative energy” surrounding them. But people have died as a result of acting on what voices in their heads tell them to do.

If someone has stated that he has already taken action (moving to a new state on short notice) as the result of voices/sounds in his head, I don’t think that the most responsible thing to say to such a person is to take a salt-water bath. Sorry if that isn’t agreeable with your worldview, but I couldn’t in good conscience say such a thing.


It’s not a question of what I believe. As you said, there are MANY belief systems in the world. So the question is how do we select a belief system or a course of action when there are so many out there?

What makes an Amazonian shaman’s belief system and course of healing action (salt bath cleansing) more desirable or effective than an UFOlogist’s belief system and course of action (tin foil hat) or a Western physician’s (psychotherapy and anti-psychotic medication)? Out of the many belief systems available to us, why are you biased toward a particular one (Amazonian shamanism) rather than another, such as that of a UFOlogist or a Western physician?

And I really WOULD like you to explain how one unsupported claim (salt bath cleansing to rid one of evil spirits) is superior to another (tin foil hat to rid one of evil spirits), but I don’t see how you could. The fact that both claims are unsupported makes them equivalent.

The claims made by Western medicine are supported by research, clinical trials, etc. It’s far from perfect, but it does oftentimes work.

Impeccable logic.

Those are not the same things and again you are pathologizing a belief system you see to be inferior to your own views.
The majority of people who live within animist cultures that have shamans are polyphasic meaning that they embrace the multiple types of consciousness and Patients as well as shamans interact with the spirit world often. Regardless if one hears a voice that does not mean that they are mentally ill. I and many other people I know hear voices and have experiences just like the ones described by avatar and do not suffer from a mental illness.