Hi All,

There is no forum section on legality, so I'll put this in here.

I live in a small, and what I thought was tolerant European country.

A few months ago I ordered a package from one of our preferred and popular vendors. I ordered two types of Vine (250g each), Caapi leaves (50g) and Chacruna (100g). I never received the parcel and eventually gave up and accepted its loss.

A week ago I received a citation from the police to answer to the charges of importing narcotics. I consulted a lawyer and requested an English interpreter.
I answered the Q&A, in which I was asked all the quesions I was expecting them to ask:

Did you order it? Why did you order it? What did you order? How much did you order? How did you pay? Have you ever ordered it before? Did you receive it? If so, where is it? Did you ever consume it? Was it for personal use? Was I aware of the legal status of the plants? etc...

I answered truthfully within the context of the quesitons and was careful not to go into any kind of monologue. I look corporate in that I am well groomed, have Clooneyesque gray hair and wear suits from Milan.

Why did I buy it?

-> I had read about its general medicinal properties. I have been treated for insomnia and anxiety and was looking for a more natural remedy than pharmaceutical drugs. This is fact and checks out with my doctor

Did you ever buy it before?

-> Yes

Where is it?

-> At home.

How much of it?

-> All of it.

Why?

-> I never consumed it because I am not suffering from anxiety induced insomnia at the moment. In short, I never needed to.

Legally this works in my favour. It shows that I bought it for a purpose but never used it. Possession and consumption are different in the eyes of the law. All of my statements and final statements indicated my ignorance on the legal status of the plants. Also I maintained my innocence and insisted that there was never any intention to use the plants as an hallucinogen.

When I was questioned about the hallucinatory properties of the plants I did tell them that I had subsequently found out that Caapi alone is not hallucinatory. Also when they asked if I had any knowledge of the legal status of the plants I declared my ignorance on the matter. I was not about to teach them that Caapi in all forms was actually legal and that they were wrong. The only plant that is questionable is the Chacruna as its alkaloids are controlled and prohibited. If this goes to court, I can then produce a lawyer and some research on the matter. If it goes that far and I can prove that the police wrongly seized what was actually legal, it puts their efforts in a less than better light.

I was content with the final report and what they had written down as answers to the quetions, so I signed the protocol.

They then produced a search warrant and took me home to search my flat, cellar and car. They seized what Caapi I had at home, plus all of my herbs and incense (pau d'arco, blue lotus, pink lotus, calea, frankincense, etc...)

The search warrant stipulated that they could seize any documents or literature pertaining to the charges. I have bookshelf full of books on the subject, as you could imagine. In the front seat of the my car was a copy of Food of the Gods. They were obviously not big readers because they completely ignored to look into any detail at anything.

The search seemed like a process they simply had to follow. They remained polite and did not turn anything over. They seemed satisified and discussed amongst themselves that I had been cooprative.

The next step is that this goes to the District Attorney's office and judicial Magistrate. I may be summonsed to appear before the courts and a further investigation may ensue. We'll see what happens.

So, to all of you out there be careful. Things are not as peachy as we think they are. Also, be very careful what you keep lying around and make sure everything is food grade and regular.

I will keep you updated.

Peace,

GM.

Not good, which country do you live in?

Methtical

In a mountainous region carefully squished between France, Germany, Italy and Austria. Not technically Europe.

Lol my geography is terrible, even with those clues I'm still none the wiser

I can't help but think you answered more than you should have, in the eyes of the law they will probably try to twist it so that it looks like you knew damn well what was in the plants and had bad intentions.

I'm a little confused though - you said the package never arrived, so how can "all of it" be "at home"? Maybe if you said you had used it, then you can claim that it was for personal use only - they might try and spin it that you were hoarding for intent to supply - who knows what kind of tricks they will try and pull.

Surely a "No comment" stance might have been better off here - all you did was order some plant material, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, surely? I jsut can't help but feel they were throwing questions at you in the hopes that you would incriminate yourself and give them something to roll with, as opposed to answering "hallucina what now?". Plead ignorance and deny everything, nobody is there to help you, they only want one outcome.

Nonetheless, I shall have a clear out when I get home, make sure everything is above board. Christ, you'd think they'd have some real criminals to go and prosecute wouldn't you?

Best of luck,

Methtical

Holy cow ghostman, wtf?

Hope all turns out ok

Wow, that's a tough break.
It's good they didn't take any books, but did take all your herbs.
The amount on non-active plants you have are sure to indicate the legality of your actions.

Oh brother, I hope this turns out okay for you! You seem to have dealt with the situation in a perfect manner, which is great!

Sorry to hear about your legal issues I hope it all works out. Gotta hate the ignorant mass majority policing substances they know nothing about. I don't know about where you live but in the usa only members of the santo daime are allowed to legally posses ayahuasca.

The first thing I did when I received the citation was to get a lawyer. He coached me on what questions they would ask and how to answer them without opening any doors. This proved to be worth it as they asked the exact same questions in the exactly the same sequence. That made me smile.



I had in fact ordered two parcels, one off eBay and one from a class vendor. One parcel was delivered (the eBay package) this parcel contained Caapi vine only. One of the questions was 'Had you ever ordered it before?' and it actually works in my favour and makes my stance more credible if I say 'yes'

In which case 'Where is it?' - at home 'How much of it?' - all of it.

The fact that I have not consumed any of it in more than 2 months makes my statement more credible. I have not consumed anything and therefore my ignorance of the hallucingenic effects are likely true.

I was only ever interested in a herbal tea that could help with anxiety and insomnia. The fact that I am not suffering from these at the moment is mirrored in the fact that I have not consumed anything.

Also, this admission and cooperation will make it less likely that they will check my transaction history.

It was a strategic admission of import and possession, but without knowleagable intent.

I had every right to not comment, however this will not stop them from pressing charges and will surely force an investigation on the next level. Something I don't want. I am likely looking at a fine and a smack on the wrist.

No books were conviscated and I had a wee chuckle when Food of the Gods was in my car and they paid no attention to it. I spoke to the plants in the Police station and asked them to connect with hyperspace and send back good vibes and help. I can't help but think Terrence was looking on ;-)

I just thought that it's my duty to remind you all, since we have to keep eachother's backs that we should not be sloppy. Be vigilant, healthy, stealthy, wise and clean.

Yikes, ghostman. I'm not a lawyer but it seems like the answers you gave provided them with enough evidence to produce the search warrant - if they had enough evidence previously they would have simply issued a search warrant rather than a citation to begin with. But that said *I'm not a lawyer*, and no need to stir it up now.

Hope you'll keep us updated, and I send thoughts/prayers that you'll be fine.

Very sorry to hear. My sense of geography is fine , and I am very surprised at the authorities in your country. Never would have expected that, unless you had had been a few countries east of where you are...

Gives pause - I have always considered (and still do, largely, but with my back up a little) my country as being entirely safe in this regard (with due caution, of course). I have my own means of being "safe" - no online orders, no credit cards etc., but I realize that is not universally an option.

GOOd luck - i am sure it will work out. You are handling it excepitonally well - keep us posted.

JBArk

Nor are you a lawyer concious of the intricacies of the law in his country.

Ghostman, you seem to be progressing with this perfectly. Good luck. I'm sure the police station plants have you in mind.

Oh man, I wish you nothing but the very best of luck ghostman. Hopefully you can build a good case, and I can only hope that future projects of yours will not be made more difficult.

Peace,

Macre.

Agreed. Sorry to hear about it, hopefully it will go well given your intelligent response.

You have my fullest emotional support man...

Oh man, hope everything works out for the best!

Thank you everyone for the thoughts and support. Don't stop believing.

Hope all works out well. Wishes the best for ye.

good luck ghostman! I think you have been handling this pretty well !

I also hope that all works well and yes, I also want to congratulate you for handling the situation. Acting under the consultation of a good lawyer is a MUST in these situations!!!

Please keep us updated, and stay courageous! The verdicts from such cases are often critical for the later status of entheogens.