Obviously these two plants, when completely purified into their respective isolated drugs:
Problems occur.

Maybe that is reason enough that they're not discussed here.

And maybe, they really aren't "other psychoactives".

In that sense maybe they aren't worthy of discussion -- here...

I had a topic up a while ago about cocaine with mixed views on the substance. It is definitely a taboo here.

It is psychoactive, so I would assume that it is allowed to be discussed in this area.

Both coca and opium poppies have both been frowned upon here in the past, but the the way I see it, unless you are talking about synthing or selling them, then it shouldn't be an issue.

Just try to keep it interesting

Opium too?.. Opium seems far more acceptable to me.

mehhh god complexes and holier than vow viewpoints suck...coca and poppies both are useful plants and shouldnt be tabboo..if they are its becasue of peoples own hangups, not becasue of the plants themselves.

While I agree with Fractal enchantment, a few others on this forum will shit bricks on you for bringing up this subject. It's kind of sad. I think there are just too many ex-addicts of cocaine present here and just the thought of cocaine brings bad memories to them and so they don't like it talked about. Sort of how SWIM is with marijuana, being a serious ex-marijuana addict, he hates the stuff now and doesn't like talking about it.

Ask anyone whose been trekking through high altitude areas of south america. Coca leaf is plenty acceptable. Necassary even.

Never been hooked to cocaine.. But SWIM is still having problems controlling his cannabis habit.

While I think Coca LEAF is ok to talk about here, opiates are a different story altogether.

We also have a many ex-heroin/opiates addicts on this forum, myself included. Talk about pods probably isn't the best thing for us. Plus they are highly addictive, much more so than coca leaf. I wouldn't wish anyone to have to suffer getting off of pods, they are like Nature's methadone...w/d's last longer as well. So no, opium poppies are not allowed to be discussed.


Coca leaf is NOT cocaine, however, extractions will be deleted...but just coca leaf itself should be ok to talk about, you don't rail coca leaf, you quid it, quidding shouldn't get anyone jonesing for a quid...I think as long as the discussions relate to the leaf only, it should be ok. I chew coca leaf on occasion, it is certainly not psychologically addictive to me. Nice for a break from coffee, or yerba mate, coca tea tastes good, is pretty darn good FOR you, unless other mods have issue with it?

I personally don't see a problem with talking about either poppies or coca. It's not legal issues because DMT is also illegal. They are entheogens, plants. If someone has issues with it I would assume they would just stay out of the thread. Is it actually against Nexus policy?

Just like anything else it's all about moderation. My friend has grown poppies and used them in tea form instead of prescription meds when needed. They both play important roles IMHO

Acalon, no interest in reading about extracting coca leaves but am curious. You said the thread will be deleted, is it the addictive properties?

I think it is extraction-discussion that is against Nexus policy.

I find it interesting to examine plants' relationships to humans in the context of alkaloid refinement.

For Example, some plants, some may argue, benefit the human symbiosis relationship more when left to their "full spectrum" profile.

I wonder about this.
And I have wondered with Ayahuasca purists proclamations that may revolve around this type of thought.

I have even wondered if the purge is somehow qualified under an adaptive illusion of necessity;
in that it was unavoidable conceptually until the arrival of Pharmahuaca.

Obviously this only applies to some and not all partakers and their respective experiences.

Some can tolerate more than others, the purgative effects of the brew.

In the example of Coca, I have to say the full spectrum of alkaloids, of which I believe there to be approximately a dozen, seem to none other than make for a more enjoyable experience altogether in the form of a "full range" chew.

In that sense I feel having the experience of the more organic form has helped straighten out some of the remaining cobwebs regarding my own past abuse. In the sense that my whole brain-body conscious/sub-conscious relationship with this plant was formed with only part of the picture and with a poisoned part.

It is amazing especially when one considers something like Street Cocaine, which may contain absolutely awful cuts which are combined with only one Coca Alkaloid.

So I can honestly say that a recent organic full range extraction experiment left me realizing how poisoned the consciousness of street coca really is;
in that even a full range extraction is absolutely and completely far different from street cocaine. And truthfully, this experiment basically nullified any remaining interest in the darkness of unidentifiable compounds subject to various histories and karmas and toxicity.

I may have lost my point, if I ever had one;
but I think there is a very important task of -- when isolating alkaloids -- of determining which ones are contributing or lessening the healing or otherwise intention of process.

And of course this varies from individual to individual...

And P.S. I am not trying to discuss extraction here or promote it.

I think it is interesting to contemplate the trickle down effect of all shared knowledge with any plant.

I'm sure this has to be challenging as a moderator, even to question what the cumulative and collective effect of say supporting any form of any plant consumption are...

Im really not for this no poppy talk at all..poppies have medicinal value and were used in european magic for a long time..poppies are a plant nothing more..people choose to use things a certain way the plant doesnt make that decision.

It is a psychoactive that has an interesting histry of use in european magic and witchcraft and I think it would be quite sad for us to not allow talk of its responciple and safe use. If we can talk about alcohol and tobacco I think we should allow talk of poppies.

Lets not start demonizing plants, PLEASE....

its not that I doubt for one second how addictive poppies can be, its just that id rather see us promote personal responcability for the actions we choose to take, as opposed to barring everyone else from something that could be an interesing discussion. Poppies have a long and interesting history of use, and is a plant that is tied so closely to humans throughout the ages.

I think the reason coca leaf is beneficial and less addictive is simply the dose and pharmacokinetic's of oral cocaine. I don't think the other alkaloids play an important role. Other nutrients make it healthier but that's as far as I'm willing to speculate.

Lots of people speculate about synergism and herbal drugs versus pure compounds. Very few people even dedicated researchers successfully prove this idea. Then there's the other side of this spectrum so called herbalists who live by this mantra but who have even less proof on their side.

I've spent time studying this issue in detail. There is a scientific approach to answering these questions but few ever bother to take that road. They'd rather just rely on myths and misinformation to sell their products. Although there are many serious researchers who are taking novel approaches to answer these questions I don't want to discredit their work because their work is good. I am discrediting the people who just assume that whole is better then pure compound without doing any science or chemistry.

I haven't read anything that warns against discussing the properties of either plant or even any note about extractions from these plants being disallowed.

Am I missing somethings?

No, we don't have anything written in stone forbidding it, but in general we discourage the discussion of opiates.

I agree with fractal 100%.

Papaver somniferum is a BEAUTIFUL ornamental and the seed oil is a great addition as a dressing additive and various other uses.

Everything talked about this plant doesnt have to revolve around "extracting this" or "getting this to yield x%"

If you've had bad roads with this/these particular plant then don't read the thread/post/etc.

But some people (not all) are interested in the postives from this specific plant..whether it be ornamental for a gardening collection, hybridizing for more beautidul arrangements, or for it's value as a food constituent/etc.

Remember...the plants have their positives and negatives. It's what you as a conscious individual decide to do with these plants and their many +'s and -'s. To help or to hurt?

If you are more interested in it's beauty, please discuss this plant on a gardening forum.

I can verify with the Traveler, and we can put it into writing if that's really what we need to do, but I'm just saying that generally, on this forum (dedicated to DMT, and allies, not meth, crack, opium, etc), we usually shut threads that go into opiates down...do as you please, I'm only letting you of our informal policy.

No plant should be demonized, none. I do not demonize the poppy, I've grown them and they are beautiful plants...but I don't have posts up of my grow log here do I, does anyone? There are sites that talk about poppies all day long, that's their focus. If it is TRULY that important, hop over to another forum for your poppy talks.

Again, I'm just one guy here....I'm not forbidding anything.

I gotta agree with acolon_5, here at the DMT Nexus we are exploring the spirit molecule, and allies. If you guys want to talk about poppy, then maybe you should find a forum better suited to talk of poppy's.

Personaly I dont like talk of a substance like poppy on a forum dedicated to DMT.