Set and setting didn't matter, I generally had a great time while on it. It was the five days afterwards that was bad.

Yes I know about how a pill might not be MDMA, etc. Let's just say they were better back then than they are now, and if you've had real MDMA you can tell the difference. Actually I didn't see powder for years... that started emerging around 2003 for me. My first pill was in 1996.

No problem ohayoco ... you gave your opinion and that is valuable. I don't think anyone here (not even fractal) thinks MDMA is the ultimate therapy pill.
Different people with different mindsets and different metabolism react differently to different substances under different contexts.



I'm glad you bring this up fractal, this is a key factor in this type of threads. Until legalization occurs, we don't really know if the pill or substance we ingest/ingested is of high quality or MDMA at all. It is probable that what Citta thinks is MDMA is not 100% MDMA.

Hi Citta - hmmm quite the ethical dilemma you're in. A few things come to mind, I hope they may help.

Your friend seems to be looking for something outside of herself - the question for you in terms of moral responsibility is would she find it anyway, and then in what circumstances would she be taking it? Tough call, as a friend. It might be just what she needs - or it might mean a night of wonder followed by a week of depression.

And yes, if you give her the pill, you have a responsibility to her; though it is her choice, you still have a responsibility. Are you prepared to take it?

My two concerns with MDMA are this:

First, the purity of what passes for e these days is highly suspect - can you know what you'll be giving her?

Second - people 'get into' substances ... we take things and they become part of us, and we live them for a time sometimes. The trick is not to let it become all of who we are; and those who don't like themselves are more prone to reinventing themselves in the context of the substance and the surrounding culture.

Much love

I like this 88. your spot on to!

I think there has been alot of good sense expressed in the replies.Personally I think a little more info on the nature of your friends' issues is required before an informed suggestion can be made as to whether MDMA or a proper psychedelic would be most suitable.For example, the question which springs to MY mind straight away is why did the kids give her a hard time at school?

Thanks for input dear nexians, keep em coming.

Yeah, she came to me asking about MDMA. She knows I am into psychedelics and know alot about this stuff so naturally she asked. It is indeed a tough choice to make, because I am taking a certain responsibility if I choose to give her the drug. I have been talking to her alot about this, saying that there is no guarantee, that MDMA is NOT a magic pill that automatically will rid her of her problems and so on. She seems to be perfectly aware of this and says she is not really expecting anything, but she thinks it is worth to try it given that the work with her shrink is not getting anywhere (he wants her to start eating anti-depressants). She also trusts me to give her the love, understanding and support she may or may not need through the session.

I have also said to her very clearly that I am by no means a professional. That I have no training in therapy except for the countless times I have tried to talk people through issues in life (as a good friend does). I have read alot about MDMA therapy and will continue to do so, as well as continue to read about therapy. If I am to take this responsibility I wanna minimalize the risks to the best of my ability and to try to make this as successful as possible.

I thought at first when she came to me that she didn't know alot about MDMA, but she seems to be doing quite a lot of research herself about this, which is a good sign in my opinion. It tells me that she is serious about this and really wants to do it. She says she's been thinking about this for a very long time, but now starting to seriously consider it. Her psychological issues ain't of a very serious nature, I mean she is not in danger of going fucking nuts or anything so I can hardly imagine that this session will go so wrong that it will impact her negatively afterwards. She has no intention to do any other drug and has not done any other drug (she has barely touched alcohol) or to do MDMA again, she just wants to see if it might help her in any way.

And about the purity issue. Yes, it is true that there is no guarantee as to the purity of the MDMA I am getting, but I trust my sources as these are good friends of mine and not some far away twisted druggie. We are in a serious environment, so I am not afraid of getting something else than what I've asked for.

Yes, I am working on all of this. I have been talking to her alot about her issues and her past, taking notes underway. So I have already started the process of trying to map the issues so that I know more about what we should be going through. Why she has been mocked? Difficult questions that I have not yet ventured so deep into, but I will be getting there. But it was the usual, unreasonable girl mocking that we so often see at elementary and middle school.

Fractal Enchantment

I couldn't agree more. I have had some incredibly deep healing sessions with pure MDMA. (Taken a year or so apart.)


Much Peace and Sunshine

My advise is to prepare yourself. It seems like your friend is preparing herself properly and that's good. I mean prepare yourself to potentially have your friend unload a lot of issues that may be uncomfortable for you to hear about. They may not even be that interesting to you because obviously they are not your problems. One of the roles in a professional setting for a therapist would be to listen and provide compassion for the person.

I would not advise trying to psychoanalyze her or anything like that. Just listen be a friend be supportive and she should take care of the rest.

The other thing I would be careful about is handling the come down. Some people can find such huge release from their negative feelings during MDMA that the come down can be particularly difficult. Also the next couple of days could also be difficult. It could also be the opposite and the next couple of days will be an amazing fresh start. I am not sure if tryptophan supplements or something to reboost the bodies serotonin would be a good idea, but its worth looking into.

Of course make sure she understands not to abuse the drug. MDMA is safe in doses of somewhere around 120mg with occasional use. MDMA does not cause "holes in your brain" at these doses. You have to abuse it weekly or daily in high doses for those kind of problems to develop. Maybe monthly I don't think anyone knows but you get the idea don't abuse it its a tool.

Thanks burnt =)

Seems like MDMA does not cause holes in the brain to begin with. That was the result of bad, propaganda-oriented science, of the same caliber as the 1970's University of Mississippi research that showed that "Marijuana kills brain cells" after a number of rhesus monkeys were suffocated with marijuana smoke, and the brain scans showed that their brain cells were also dead! The "holes in the brain" BS was bad science. Some of the other "evidence" linking MDMA with brain damage (the study reported in Nature, I believe) was actually the result of a mistaken identification of a large amount of methamphetamine as MDMA. The researchers administered significant quantities of methamphetamine to patients and concluded that MDMA causes brain damage. Bad science at its core. Some of this information is available off the MAPS site at http://www.maps.org/mdma/studyresponse.html.

That's not to say there is no danger to MDMA over-use, but the FDA recently ruled that the risk/benefit ratio for MDMA treatment of PTSD patients was low enough to justify approval of the South Carolina study. From what I've read, the danger with over-use of chemicals in the MDxx family is the double ring with the two oxygen atoms in the molecule. There are no known neurotransmitters with the extra oxygen-containing ring you see in the pictures. I have almost know chemistry knowledge so please correct me if the information I've given is incorrect. The first pic is MDMA with the second apparently troublesome oxygen-containing ring, the second is serotonin and the third is the safer mescaline.

OP I've also been told that 5-HTP counteracts the next-day hangover of MDMA by boosting serotonin levels in the system.

I'm not going to repost the ref, i've already posted it several times: MDMA is neurotoxic, it erodes fine-beaded axons in the raphe nuclei. it's well documented for extensive MDMA use, not only in rats but in humans

that being said, beta-blockers are an attractive alternative as they are not subject to addiction, since they don't stimulate the nucleus accumbens like euphoriants.

What about one time use, or very seldom use, within the frame of moderate dosages? Shouldn't be a problem as far as neurotoxicity goes, right?

it's neurotoxic regardless..but the beauty of the brain is how elastic it is.
so one dose or seldom use won't really be a problem

Hi there

I have just read the entire topic and I think I can share some of my experience with you I have done MDMA in a relaxed/therapeutic setting with 4 of my best friends 4 times in 2 years. And it went great, really. In fact, we are planning to do it again over a few months None of them used MDMA before and still, there was not a moment during entire 10-hours trip that one of them would feel bad or uncomfortable. Yes, we felt pretty miserable the day after when we took too much of MDMA, like it happened in the 2nd and a bit in the 3rd time we used it But even given that, the benefits from using MDMA in a good setting are enormous.

So, let me share with you some of my thoughts and experiences, which I have accumulated during my MDMA adventures

First of all, if you are still hesitating about if you should do it – do it Really, the possibility of something going wrong during MDMA experience is in my point of view very, very low. It somehow takes away some of your Psychological Defense Mechanisms (PDM) and it minimizes the fear (in a variety of it forms). Especially a first-time user, getting a decent dose of MDMA (125 mg), would feel extremely well. You will most likely get comments like: “I never felt so great!” and “I feel me 100% myself now”.

Now let’s talk about the setting. The most important thing is… the people Make sure, that you will not be disturbed during your MDMA session, or at least not by people who are not rolling on MDMA also. Since it’s your friend, I would recommend taking the MDMA altogether, I did this al 4 times and I can only recommend it. I was even able to discuss some of my issues, which were probably not so big, but still gave me some troubles Otherwise, try to be as compassionate as possible The easy part is, you don’t need to play Freud to get your ‘patient’ talking, he will do it al by himself when the time is right, usually just after the MDMA has taken it’s full effect. Really, the people start talking about their issues as soon as they get a chance and MDMA gives them that chance. A chance, or better said - an opportunity, to openly discuss their problems in a safe environment. And they always know were the roots of their problems lie. I think you will be stunned, as I was, to see how aware people actually are of their condition and what brought them to that condition. I am pretty sure that in normal everyday life, the PDM are blocking people from objectively discussing the painful roots of their problems and that, in effect, is depriving them of the ability to integrate some specific experiences in the conscious mind. So, they always stay at some sub-conscious level, generating flashbacks and other troubles for the person.

The location is also important. I did MDMA 2 times in a normal town apartment and 2 times in a caravan at a camping in the midst of a nature. Well, I liked the nature the most, but apartment did really fine too. I didn’t notice any quality difference in psychologically beneficial effects of MDMA during any of those given conditions, but rolling is just so sweat when you can walk and feel free in the nature

About the dosage. The official therapeutic dosage is x1 125mg, followed by an additional dosage of x1 75mg a few hours later. I am getting my information from http://www.maps.org/mdma/ This is an organization, which sponsors pretty much all of the currently running MDMA studies. A lot of useful info there However, I and my friends like the dosage of 300mg (125mg, 100mg and then 75mg) the best, so we can go the whole night (10 hours or so ). It always flows as follow: first part are deep conversations, the second part we are just making fun and the third part we start to coming down and feel/look a bit like zombies, lol

And at last, but not least – have fun You are going to have a great time (especially if you participate together with you ‘client’ ) And at the very least, it will be just that – you will have a wonderful time. And at the very best, your friend will get profound psychological health improvements, which will manifest itself in short-term and long-term behavior

I dont look for mdma anymore and only takes about 140mg if the "pure" (always use eztest, it's not perfect but at least you now it's some md-substance) crystals happens to come my way.
It happens less then every year, wont cry if I never get to take it again.

However. The first time I took mdma is probably the strongest experience I have ever had.

I have been a heavily depressed/paranoid/antisocial introvert for over 10 years.
Taking mdma really changed my life for the better.
It was the first time I could really open up and trust someone other then myself.
It was the first time I could really look at my self and my life
without blaming myself for every little thing.
And most importantly, it was the first time I felt like a good person. First time I can remember.
Not only could I feel it but I could also see it.
I could see all the good things I do and that there's a reason for my friends
sticking around. Good friends are something you earn.

It didnt fix all my problems (surprise!) but it really changed my world view and got rid
of a lot of unnessesary baggage.

...acid made me less paranoid though =)

So will it help your friend? Dont expect a miracle but there's a lot of people out there saying it
has helped them and a realatively small portion that has had very negative effects.

^In a safe and controlled setting that is. I have met a lot of people who eat to much.
Most of which "ate" to much since mdma stopped working for them.
The worst cases are really burned out, but there's a lot of polydrug use so mdma isn't the only
crook for that.

Also, I feel amazing for one whole week after I have taken mdma but all of my friends feel like crap.
So let her know that doomsday might come.

Thanks for good replies people. I have done MDMA twice myself so I know the drill, at least on a personal level, that is also one of the reasons she came to me. I guess we have pretty much have decided to do this, wish us luck =)

MDA + DMT = JESUS CRUMBS

nuff said

Benzyme

Peyote is also neurotoxic by classification...


Much Peace and Rainbows

What benzyme said is documented in scientific papers.. I dont think there's any scientific paper out there claiming neurotoxicity in any similar manner with peyote/mescaline. Or is there anything you know about?

btw benz, I thought it was the myelin that got damaged, no? The myelin not being the axons/nerves themselves but the protective layer around them