I just took a nap, and had a strange dream about tranformation and thought I could better respond to this question now.

Yes, transformations happen all the time. I am old enough to have witnessed many in the time frame in which you are referencing. There have been many changes, but would you condede that they appear to be speeding up? The change over the last 5 years are more than in the 10 before that, and more than the 20 before that. The pace of change is accelerating at an exponential rate.

Are we not seeing a massive awakening around the globe? The systems and institutions which have been governing our lives before any of us were born are beginning to crumble.

Our financial systems, we may suspected, but now we know plain and clear have been using us for their own benefit. The banks and investment houses have been using our labor, and our taxes to take uncalcuable risks in order to enrichen themselves, and not the common people. The Fedreal Reserve Bank has printed unknown trillions of dollars, guaranteed upon the labor of the american workforce and taxes to fund these institutions. Our future has been sold for profit, a profit none of us will ever see. This has been revealed to us, the wool has been pulled from our eyes. Do we want a monetary system that benefits the few at thet expense of the many? We have been lied to since before we were born, and are now just waking up to the truth that we have been economic slaves, even when the resources exist to take care of our every need. A physical slave has to be fed, clothed and housed...an economic slave has to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

Our Political systems: Are crubling around us. The true nature of the beast is revealed when we see how all our politicians are in the pockets of special intersts and corporationis. We the people are not represented. We are being taxed without representation, as our needs come second to those who can afford to line the pockets of those who are supposed to represent us. Congress has become an institution of legalized bribery. You don't pay, you don't get heard. Those with the most money control the agenda, and that is certainly not you or I? Sure this has been the case for a long long time, but the majority of people are now just becoming aware of it. Do we want a system where our voices are slienced, or do we want our individual soverignity back? They pass $60 billion to fund wars without a question, but balk at spending $32 billion to extend unemployment benefits during the worst economic downturn in memory? Look at where their priorities are at. Are they with you, or against you?

Our Energy System: Is crumbling around us. Our dependence on oil and fossil fuels is being shown for the true destructive nature that they are. How they are in cohoots with business and government to the detriment of the people. Did you know that in 1980, there were no fewer than 50 differnt models of cars that got 50mpg or more? Nowadays you need a hybrid to get close to 40mpg. How is it possible, that in 30 years, the fuel efficiency of cars has dropped by 20%? With technology we should be getting 100mpg, at least, or have totally gotten off oil altogether. It destroys our enviornment, enrichens a few, funds entities and governments that want to destroy us. We have been controlled by big energy companies who were looking out for their own existence as entities and instutions that are depended upon. Do you want to sell your, and your decendents future to maintain an institution which has no interesst aside from its own continuation?

All those things which were the foundations of our society are beginning to fall away, as the truth is finally revealed about what has really been going on. More people are politically/socially/enrironmentally/energetically/emotionally/intuitively aware than at any time in human history. There are more people alive today than in the entire history of the planet. It seems like everyone who has ever lived is here now for this moment...and...It just so happens that all this revelation of truth comes at a time predicted by a calendar which was created over 2000 years ago. The Mayans say this is a time of transformation, a move into a new age, a time of letting go of the old to let in the new. It is echoed in Christian beliefs, Hindu, Jewish, Muslum, Hopi, Aboriginial, Roman Cybil, Mother Shipton, Myrddin, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, etc... You name it, they all talk about this time in their histories, prophecies and or myths.

Do you honestly believe that the world 5 years from now will be almost the same as it is today with a little more technology? I think the world 5 years from now will be as unreognizable to us today as the dark ages are to us now. But it won't happen unless people wake up, become aware of the systems of control which until recently have been hidden...and there is evidence of that happening at an ever increasing rate everywhere.

This is the story of your enslavement and this is a nice article about science vs religion in the Guardian

Very nice! I hadn't seen "the story of your enslavement before", it points out the situation very clearly and concisely. Thank you for this.

"You can only be kept in cages you refuse to see"

"Wake up. To see the farm is to leave it"

burnt is back
Hey burnt, really sorry for my mean posts in the past.
But I've still got the opinion that conciousness is the ultimate truth.
You can read about scientific articles as much as you want..
you can think about reality as much as you want.
There is still conciousness inside yourself above all these toughts and "reasonable" arguments.
Something beyond the mind.

Just think about meditation.
Once we are meditating there is no mind, there is no "I". Isn't that proof enough for conciousness?
For me it is!

My last trip (you'll find it here)
was very enlightening regarding that topic for me.

Maybe we just want to see, what we heard.
But even if so, this experience showed me, what my mind is, conciousness about "things", about me, about a life as a human being and sometimes about something else.

I fully admit I also contribute to degrading conversation when I resort to insulting people out of frustration. That's why I leave to cool off. I am passionate about this subject. Its not about insecurity its because I give a fuck. Not about your opinions but about the direction the psychedelic culture should head in if it ever wants to be socially accepted. This direction is that of research and science to better understand how these substances can be put to good use. Not indulging beliefs which I think are becoming faith based and religious in nature. So I maintain that accusation that I think many people here turn dmt and psychedelics into a kind of religion despite the many claims that they aren't.

How many times have people here claimed that "your insulting plant spirits" or "i've seen the truth" or dodge the question by saying "its true for me and whats true for you is true for you".



What you say about my articles isn't even true. Yes I used lectures and article that were old but from Richard Feynman who was completely accurate in his lectures. I also posted about books and articles that are new. People have tracked this movement of quantum mysticism and debunked it thoroughly.

I posted many times about a book called "Quantum Gods: Creation Chaos and the Search for Cosmic Consciousness" by Victor Stenger. He destroys this myth. But no one wanted to read it or any of his articles because hes not just a real physicist but an atheist so people assumed he was biased and wouldn't be honest. Although he was honest and every other real physicist I've talked to has told me the same thing. What you hear on the internet from fringe scientists about quantum mechanics is largely a bunch of total BS twisted around to make you think all these weird beliefs.



Nothing to do with banning it has to do with the level of discussion going from serious discussions about the brain and psychedelic drugs to arguing with people who had no idea what they were talking about saying "rocks are conscious". How can we have serious discussions when people are completely ignorant about such basic facts about the world most likely as a result of their own psychedelic drug use?

So yes I do feel the discussion level degraded significantly although I fully admit I added a harsh element to it when I got pissed off about it.

I am glad traveler banned the conspiracy theory discussions that were contaminating the site. But you are right discussions about the brain and dmt are not the main focus of the site but it was one of the parts I enjoyed beyond the chemistry talk.



Yes its total nonsense and many of those physicists have been discredited by the mainstream physics community. It doesn't matter how you interpret quantum mechanics the data is there and nothing points to consciousness having any role in controlling reality. That's a total myth.



Actually there is a lot of agreement. These discredited physicists and new ager's try to convince people that there isn't when in fact there is and has been for a long time.



The internet is part of this viral marketing scheme I am talking about. You just proved my point again that it has influenced your thinking. Materialist's haven't attempted to squash them they have squashed them but people who don't know the facts ignore it or pretend like they haven't. Quantum mechanics is more reductionist then ever just look at the standard model of particle physics. Even string theory is just as material and reductionist as ever.

These concepts are gaining popularity because we have a deeply uninformed scientifically illiterate public. This is partially the fault of scientists for ignoring garbage being spread on the internet and not doing enough to communicate with the public but hopefully that will change in the future.



HAH! Totally untrue. Yes some people have embraced these kind of ideas but that's a very small minority who wants to make money selling books and many of whom are discredited and ignored by the scientific community. The only esteemed scientist who supports any of this stuff is Roger Penrose but his whole mitocondrial brain as quantum computer idea is probably wrong for reasons I am not going to discuss right now. But know that its not taken seriously by the vast majority of scientists who have looked at his idea.



Its not my truth. Its the truth derived from facts. You have no facts just your own personal experiences which we know for a fact can be misinterpreted and wrong.



Dude I work in the field of drug development. I know for a fact that the vast majority of these alternative medicine practices are total bullshit. I also know the power of the placebo effect which is something you don't seem the have a clue about. Most people don't. These things have been debunked or shown clinically to be placebo many times.



Thats not a valid way to even determine if something is true or not. It doesn't matter if something "resonates" with you.

Second I've had many deeply moving psychedelic experiences. I've had experiences where dead relatives spoke to me. Tell me thats not "deep enough" for you? However I still remain objective enough to recognize that perhaps it was just my brain's way of coping with their deaths when I was on drugs. This is something you and others here don't do. You come out of psychedelic experiences and think that your interpretation is automatically valid because it seemed real to you. Thats not acceptable for finding out real answers. If that was the case we'd have to investigate every psychotic delusion by every schizophrenic because they are all "just as true" which is of course not possible. Even psychotics who have managed to realize they are sick are more objective then you are about their experiences.

Sometimes I mix people up or generalize. But that's better then listing out names or making specific accusations towards individuals when its a group of people ganging up on me pretty much during every serious discussion I ever try to have. But I am not making up straw man arguments. That's a baseless accusation and I resent it and this is why I get frustrated tell people to fuck off and leave.



No. I don't need to express compassion to someone who is a complete idiot. People who think rocks are conscious are idiots or delusional and not worth debating with.

Mcbeliefs? Again a baseless accusation so fuck off.



Some people actually want these drugs to be available again for medical and scientific research. Most of you claim to care about that issue but when it comes down to it would rather continue complaining about the pharmaceutical industry or say "there all against us" instead of making a serious and strong case about the value of these substances.

Maybe these will make some people "wake up" (haha!, pseudoscience expression)

Michael Specter: The danger of science denial
http://www.youtube.com/w...t1ng&feature=channel

James Randi's fiery takedown of psychic fraud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Z7KeNCi7g

Do you honestly believe that anything said on this forum will have any impact whatsoever on current or future scientific research into psychedelics? Do you believe that if all posts referencing “spirits” and the “consciousness of rocks” were eliminated from this site that academic researchers would come to the Nexus for scientific information? Talk about delusional.


So you’re suggesting it’s better to direct your ridiculous accusations toward everyone rather than particular deserving individuals?


True, but complete idiots are in greater need of compassion and understanding than the rest of us.


I don’t know who (if anyone) said that rocks are conscious, but that really seems to irritate you. And why not debate it? It seems easy enough to refute, doesn’t it?

No but when the discussion gets brought up about what the value of psychedelic drugs are for society whether medically or recreationally we don't need another Timothy Leary. I try to show people why its important to support the real science behind psychedelics instead of supporting nut cases who are still out there.



I don't want to single people out.



They usually refuse to listen. I never started a discussion by just calling people idiots. It was only after they demonstrated they really had no idea what they were talking about.



They did but I'm not going to quote mine to single someone out. It irritated me because it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding about reality. I did refute it the problem is people still insist their opinions are just as valid even if they are based on nothing but a drug induced delusion.

Oh burnt, oh burnt.
You are seriously a very strong defender of your believes which are aquired trough scientific "facts".
Anything in the world is just an interpretation, you have to admit that, everything is just a reasonable idea based on facts.
But. Still, it's an IDEA about reality.

Now, if you see the mind as some sort of interpretation machine and if you are capable of being concious of this interpretation machine, you will be able to understand most of us here who believe in certain esoteric ideas.

To your placebo example:
This is the most POWERFUL evidence for the idea of conciousness. People who get cured by placebo, are in fact concentrating on the idea of health. They convince their minds from sickness to healthiness trough concentration on healthiness. That's why placebo is working!

Indeed people get angry about science,
because science doesn't respect feelings, miracles and esthetics.
Science is just a raw fact-based idea about reality. It misses to include the individual.
That is why it cannot be the ultimate solution for any problem.


Psychedelics will always be condemned, because the elite has no interest in "demoralisation" of people.
The fact that there are people with scientific argumentation won't change the situation. Money goes, where money is.

As opposed to your scientism which has become a religion for you in its own right? This is something that has been pointed out to you numerous times, which you have failed to grasp or understand. You are guilty of that which you accuse others of, you just refuse to accept it.



It is true. I have read some of them and come to my own conclusions about the information they contained, and found it lacking in evidence or enough credibility to change my point of view. You arguments and "evidence" has been unconvincing. It has not been debunked thoroughly. If it had been it wouldn't be growing in popularity. It has been debunked to the satisfaction of materialists, but not so much for anyone else.



Straw Man



You need to add context to this. The idea that rocks are conscious, came about from a discussion that everything is conscious, from the smallest quark to the largest galaxy. If you cannot conceptualize how the universe could be a consciousness in its totality, or a hologram, then that is a lack of imaginiation on your part. It is not ignorance of others, and has nothing to do with psychedelics. There is evidence to suggest the universe we inhabit is constructed in this way, but your religious beliefs will not let you even consider the possibility. Therefore you are unable to have a discussion because your perceptions of what is possible has become your belief in what is possible, and you cannot see outside the box you have put yourself in. The discussion has moved beyond you, and you cannot catch up because you have tied your legs together.



Why do you get pissed off about it, so much so that you have to take a break and "cool off"? I contend you lack understanding, and become afraid of that which you do not know. Fear of the unknown leads to anger...



"They" have discredited "them". Straw Man.

You can't coneptualize how consciousness controls reality? To claim that something so fundamental to your existence is a total myth is amazing in its shortsightedness. It is plainly obvious you do not know what you do not know, yet you refuse to accept it. I have yet to see a good "discrediting" of this concept by "them", so to claim that everyone who is anyone(them) agrees is utter nonsense. You don't know shit from shinola, the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.



Ahh, there is a lot of agreement, but not a consensus. Therefore there are no "facts".



I agree, information has influenced my thinking. How dare information influence my thinking, I need to resort back to ignorance to provide my world view! Materialist's haven't squashed anything, except their own ability to think outside their extremely narrow, dogmatic world view. You like to claim facts where none exist...theories are not facts. You should know that.



Yes, please let loose your priesthood of science so they can tend to the poor misguided and lost flock. Please tell us what to believe so that we can leave this state of ignroance and become part of the true faith!





Straw Man.

Who are the esteemers? Its the status quo, and not always, but more often than not they are intersted in their own institutional beliefs and not anything that challenges the "mainstream." No one likes to see their life's work destoryed or made obsolete by new understanding or paradigms. It is human nature, so we can understand, if not condone their hesitance. Science in the greatest holder back of science, not the ignorance of the "lay" population.



Again, where are these "facts" you speak of? You like to claim fact without any supporting evidence. Am I to take your word for it? No that would be silly. I agree personal experiences can be misinterpreted, but that does not mean that they always are. I never use my experiences to support "fact", I never have and never will because that is just foolish. You believe in anothers interpretation of the truth, even when you have no personal experience to back those beliefs up. Who is the more deluded here, eh?



All hail the drug developer, bow down before his superior knowledge of the true nature of reality! Please, and this is supposed to convince me you know about something of which you have no personal experience?

I know and understand the placebo effect quite well, I have participated in drug trials when I was in college (what a fool I was, but hey, anything to get some extra cash at that time in life). How do you know for a FACT that they are total bullshit? You are speaking from a state of experiential ignorance, you do not have all the information available to you, just a particular interpretation that fits your world view. You believe what a select group of others have told you is true. How can you have facts when you lack the most vaulable of information...personal experience.

Does not the placebo effect have real and measureable benefits to the individual? How can you know for a FACT that it is placebo and not something else going on? If it helps the individual in a real meaningful way then it is true, and not bullshit.



Straw Man.

Ascribing thought processes and motivations to an individual or group of people when you cannot possibly have any knowledge of this is just deluding yourself to support your on belief system. I acknowledge that these experiences could be a coping mechanism, if I saw dead relatives that would be my first and natural conclusion. But my experiences and interpretations of truth do not only come from a psychedelic state. They come from meditation, contemplation, reading, writing, discussion with others, synchronicities, basically through every single solitary expeirence I have accumulated thoughout my 40 years of life. To base your truth solely on a psychedelic experience(s) is limiting oneself to a narrow band of perception.

Psychedlics can open a door, so can near death experiences, deep meditation, epiphnies, anything that helps to break consensus reality. Once open you can choose to walk through or not, and who knows what you'll find on the other side. Psychedelics allowed me to widen my perception of what is possible, and that is where I have found my answers.

But I keep searching...

Reads everything.

Didn't the Mayans disappear in 500 AD?

That pretty much sums it up. I've been attacked numerous times by Burnt over positions I never took.


On one hand, he bemoans the lack of what he defines as proper psychedelic discussion. Then damns others for thinking out loud.

In a lot of ways I agree with him in regards to casting doubt upon people's belief systems. He just comes off as such a condescending jerk about it a lot of the time.

[quote=burnt]


This is an excellent and important endeavor. Now, explore ways to do it without being so snide.

The Classical Maya abandoned thier cities in the south and highlands around 900 AD. The Post Classic Maya (900-1500 AD) centers were in the Northern Yucatan, with Uxmal and Chichen Itza being the main ones, though they were a shadow of what they once were. They were concentrated in a few small city states when the Spanish arrived.

Their descendents are still around to this day.

I don't want to argue anymore. Sorry to not respond to posts but I don't wanna get worked up again for no reason.

science is not a religion, ya, and if you cant see that difference, im very sorry. You are just taking an argument to the extreme and its losing its sense imo. Yes there are blind scientists just as there are blind carpinters or blind psychonauts, but this is very different than saying science or carpintery or psychonautics is blind (or a religion).

and I think you could reconsider your position saying people 'should' or 'shouldnt' do anything

personally, im tired of all this 2012 story. If something happens, happens, and if not, not.. What use is it to keep on repeating the same arguments over and over again? Seems like a big distraction from more pressing matters we could be discussing and thinking about, but thats just me.

ya wrote:



maybe in an ideal world where no one dies so an individual is positioned to experience anything and everything...

However, as mortals in the world we live in it is grossly impractical, and debilitating, not to believe at least some of what others have written. What exactly is the point to reading if you believe nothing you read, Ya? Are you an advocate of illiteracy? Why are you reading these words? If there is no hope you might believe them, you are wasting your time.

the problem is that many believe all that is written. By virtue of its having been written. in print journalism, on the net, in books.

And THAT is as dangerous as believing nothing that is written.

JBArk