This lecture reminded me of you folks so I thought I'd drop by to post it.

http://fora.tv/2010/04/2..._Other_Cosmic_Disasters

And a nice article by the same speaker:

http://www.skeptic.com/r...room/2012-and-counting/

What struck me as truly disturbing and heart breaking is the letters from young teenagers and concerned parents who are thinking of committing suicide as a result of these myths.

Note I may not respond to any comments here just posting.

WTF....mothers are writting in considering suicide (I assume killing their children as well)....

What ever happened to let's wait and see before offing ourselves? I mean, if I get diagonsed with cancer, I'm gonna wait and see if it can be cured, or at least put in remission. Yes suicide may be an option, but only after I KNOW, for a fact, that the Dr's have done all they can, and my quality of life has become unbearable....then and only then would I even consider offing myself.

Why are the masses so easy to control with fear? Bush got his second election purely by playing off of the fears of the uneducated...vote for me or the terrorists win.

Oh well, what a crazy whacky world we live in...so strange to me.

Hear hear!

Good stuff burnt.

The problem is these people that go on and on about 2012 this and that dont really know a thing about the actual mayan beliefs surrounding 2012..all they are debunking is peoples weirdo fantacy cult beliefs that dont even have a basis in mayan belief.

You dont see mayan's getting all bent out of shape and committing suicide over it..in fact I dont even think they take that whole "2012 end of the world crap" like that movie portrays seriousily..there are viseos out there of them stating straigh up that thats a bunch of BS and far far from the truth surrounding their beliefs.

People have fears and they will always search for an excuse to leave this existence.

I'm getting a bunker! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

Greetings there burnt with the ever-so-typically annoying drive-by posting. Personally I'm very much looking forward to the Total Solar Eclipse of 2017, which most certainly *will* happen, or at least partially for all North American Nexians. That said I don't personally know any Nexian or "real world" person who thinks "the world is going to end in 2012", and the 10 minutes I've seen of the video, and the article, seems like typical boot-kissing "scientific" snobbery, these sorts make a living sucking the cock of the military-industrial complex and acting like science is some sort of panacea for all the world's troubles, when in fact it's simply a tool (however powerful) for understanding the universe...thankfully we've managed not to blow ourselves up with the misapplication of the atomic knowledge gained during the 20th century...now I'm going to take a deep breath and leave the rant at that.

The whole "2012 end of the world" nonsense is contrived by Hollywood and the entertainment industry and has no basis in fact. The Mayans don't believe that, nor does anyone who has actually taken any time to look into the idea of this date. The true Mayans don't even give a date, and there has been serious questioning as to the validity of the 12/21/12 interpretation of the end date anyway.

It does show how easily the masses are controlled by fear...which leads to the question, who benefits from everyone being fearful all the time?

Don't have time to watch the video and the article, but will later...the thought of people actually thinking of commiting suicide over this is so abrsurd.

Honestly, I doubt much of anyone actually believes it. I've never met one.
As far as fear. Simple the world governments. Without fear they have no control.

I met a girl one morning at a festival after I had been up all night repeatidly smoking salvia in a cirlce of hippies, who started to talk about 2012. She was going on about how she had come to the realization that what had to be done for 2012 was analagous to the movie "I am legend" lol..

I was more confused and blown away by that statement then by all the salvia I had smoked the night before.

I've watched part of the video, will skim over the article in a bit...but all this talk does is attept to debunk ONE particular version of the 2012 idea, and he doesn't even do this very well.

Therefore your assertion that 2012 has been debunked extensively is simply untrue, it hasn't been debunked at all, because what he is attempting to debunk has nothing to do with the true concept of 2012. Plus your "drive by" posting with thinly veiled contempt for some of the people on this forum is not appreciated in the least.

As I said before, if you believe that 2012 is the destruction of the world, then you have not done proper research into the topic, as you have gotten it all wrong.

2012 has alreay happened for some people, some people are in the midst of it, and for others it will occur in the future or not at all. It is not a singular event that everyone will experience in the same way. It is a process. Some are ready for it, others not, and either way it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

He takes on the main myth. Your little dmt consciousness awareness myth isn't worth discussing to NASA scientists. He focused on the cosmological myths which are obviously causing the biggest concern among uninformed members of society.

The DMT myth was ALL T Mckenna's wild speculation who later even admitted he wasn't even that serious about it. Its not even worth debunking because there is nothing to debunk, its complete nonsense.

The consciousness myth is baseless speculation by writers in the new age movement although you refuse to see that.



My contempt is largely aimed at members such as yourself for ruining the level of discussion we used to have on this website. Its not thinly veiled either I was quite clear on my feelings about how people such as yourself have degraded the quality of this site.

Its true too I see that you have numerous threads with more of this quantum awareness shifting nonsense. Its really obvious that you don't understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand neuroscience, and you don't understand that you don't understand these things. Normally I would have spent lots of time coming up with evidence to show why largely what you are hinting at is baseless or untrue. But I have come to accept that most people here simply are not ready to have such discussions anymore. They think its "too mean".

There is no nice way to tell people what they believe is baseless speculation. Not only baseless speculation but self contradictory bordering on religious dogmatism. Yet time and time again you have continuously refused to admit or even consider that your a victim of viral psychedelic marketing. Many people here are. They think they are free thinking yet they are really just rehashing old arguments people have been making since the 60's that really have pervaded into the general public's "conscious".

This is NOT an insult. I too was convinced by this kind of stuff. Until I got skeptical and started doing real research into the source of these beliefs and the way its been marketed by the more industrious hippies. You can take it as an insult but thats your problem not mine. I am only trying to point out the truth.

Just look at alternative medicine for all the examples of this you need. Just peruse any modern book store and you will find all the proof you need. You can find a book on nearly every single idea you and others hear have had concerning the cosmos, consciousness, and psychedelic drugs. Almost none of your reasoning is original or new or has any evidence beyond your own subjective delusions. All this energy healing crystal new age nonsense is an offshoot of psychedelic mysticism gone commercial and individuals such as yourself are proof that its working.



More vague nonsense.

The worst part is you haven't even watched the entire video or read the article so how am I even supposed to discuss it? That happened so many times with so many articles I posted here. Its frustrating to discuss things with people who don't even consider the other sides point of view. Its frustrating to just be accused of being a materialistic 'scientism' promoter. I never even considered myself a materialist until people here lumped me into that category. All I do is look at evidence and try to come up with reasonable conclusions based on that evidence. If that steps on peoples toes too bad.

Burnt - welcome back, sir.

This does not debunk the Mayan/Mesoamerican idea that we will go into a new era or age some time around 2012. It is a common misconception that they think this will happen on December 21 2012. The Mayans alive today regard the years around this date as the time of the transformation, not a transformation that will happen overnight.

The speech is, however, a great debunk of the ludicrous beliefs that the world will go to an end on this date. These beliefs have no ground in the Mayan profecy as their supporters erroneously claim they do. It is wonderful that Dr. Morrison tries to limit the spread of such beliefs, because as he very well points out, they are actually quite dangerous to society.

Don't transformations happen all the time? Many people here are old enough to sense the transformations from 70's to 80's to 90's to 10's. So when people talk about going to a new era it is vague; sure we'll go to a new era. We've always been moving to new eras and diminishes the power of their prediction. Unless the whole 2012 talks about some BIG transformation? Then you gotta define what's sufficiently big and whether it is bigger than, say other big events like the advent of Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution and the Internet.

After watching all the 2012 discussions the past years I see that the views of the proponents have been watered down from a improbable but defined scenarios to a more probable and vague scenario. This is what I am talking about. It is like saying something will happen somehow somewhere to someone.

Welcome back burnt, glad you decided to contribute rather than just show contempt and leave. At least you were able to admit your open contempt, contempt which has hindered your ability to have a civil meaningful discussion with others who do not share your version of the "truth".

I have not been a porponent of the DMT myth, not even sure what you are talking about...you must be confusing me with someone else. You made the claim for this post that the 2012 myth was debunked "extensively" which is incorrect. It was debuned "narrowly" and in csses "incorrectly".

I have read many of the articles you have posted here, and pointed out the flaws in them, which you then convieniently ignored. A refutation of quantum consciousness which was written 30 years ago, was your mainstay! Oh how much the world has changed. You articles were as lacking in "proof" as those you were claiming to debunk, so you shouldn't be frustrated that people didn't read them, you should be frustrated that you were unable to sufficiently back up your point of view with relevant information. I have considered your ponit of view extensively, and have always been respectful, asked questions, invited debate, only to have you insult and storm away in a huff like an 8 year old who didn't get their way. I understand your point of view, but you have done a poor job of defending it in discussions, and always resort to deluded, baseless, nonsense, ruining, degrading quality insults. Yes they are insults, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it. I am not offened, you cannot possibly offend me, and I actually laugh becasue they are just a reflection of yourself and your insecurity.

Why do I need to watch/read more than I already have when it is clear that he is talking about a narrow, Hollywood influenced interpretation of the idea? I agree with him, I didn't need to watch anymore as his whole argument is based on a destruction of the world scenario which is nonsense. I agree with you. It is fear mongering at its worse. The question he should be asking...Why is the mainstream media putting out all the doom and gloom, we're all gonna die, its the destruction of the planet scenarios?

He also has not done very good research on the topics he does discuss, as he got a bunch of things wrong. The Mayans do have something to say about this time, but he claims they are silent, that we should go "ask them". The Mayans have spoken on this issue, but obviously he couldn't take the time to find out what they are saying even though it is easily available.

I agreed that he did a good job of debunking a particular facet to the myth. It is also obvious that he was playing to a receptive audience, hence the dirisive laughter you often hear when he makes points. Mocking others beliefs seems to be one of your favorite pastimes, so I understand why you liked this video.



Do you honestly believe this? That my or anyone elses presentation of ideas, in one of two forums, which are not even the main focus of this site are degrading it? If the moderators feel I am degrading the site, then please ban me as I would not want to do that. I have too much respect for the people here to ruin their experience and their ability to think in a particular way...which is apparently "burnt's" way.

You take yourself far too seriously if you do. I think there have been some really good discussions, and my perceptions have often been swayed by insightful, respectful, intelligent conversations. I am far from dogmatic, please look into a mirror and see the blinders you are wearing that narrow your vision. Our perceptions of what is possible, become our beliefs in what is possible, and people do not know what they do not know.



Because I do not agree with your particular interpretation of quantum mechanics, I am therefore spouting nonsense, and I don't understand? Are you a physicst? The ideas that I have been bringing up for DISCUSSION are those based on physicists, many who have had their doctorates for twice as long as you have been alive. They have their interpretations of something that is still not well understood. You back other physists who have their interpretaions of something that is not well understood.

Now if there was common agreement and understanding of this branch of reality and I was way off base, then your holier than thou attitude could be understood if not condoned, but there isn't...so you are really in the dark as everyone else. Therefore you do not understand either, and look down your nose at others from a state of ignorance.



You are so full of baseless assumptions it is almost scarry. Baseless speculation? Self-contradictory religious dogmaticism? I have considered very thoroughly the outside influences which may be coloring my thought processes and understanding. I have considered the viral marketing nature of these ideas. I have not been brainwashed into thinking and percieving the world around me in a very narrow way. I am not an unconsious atomaton who believes everything he has been told...I question everything!

Don't you think it is interesting, that ideas that began 70 years ago have kept around, even though materialists have attempted to squash them with "reason" for that whole time...and that these concepts are gaining in popularity as more people become aware of them in the modern age with the internet? And we aren't just talking about uneducated, unintelligent people. Some of the best minds we have today support many of these ideas. Men of science, that pillar of reason and truth that you seem to hold such high esteem in. Look around, it is your colleagues who are beinging to understand this paradigm.



Your tone is insulting, more so to your own intelligence and ability to communicate more than anything else. You are tying to point out YOUR truth, which works for you, but no one else. I certainly would not want to live in your world, to have such a narrow perception.



Have you ever participated in any of that which you are so quick to put down? Have you ever had acupuncture? Have you ever had Reiki? Ever had an Aura photograph taken? Ever seen a channel or intuitive reader? Do you have any personal experience with any of these things, or are you basing your uniformed opinions on other people or simply an inexperiential belief system?

I base my beliefs on personal experience. I have always been a skeptic, but an open minded one, able to try things out to determine for myself whether they have any validity, or if they have any meaning for me. To say something is one way, when you have never had the experience youself is disengenious.



Vague to you maybe, but I'm sure there are those here who know exactly what I'm talking about. But I would encourage them not to admit it as they will be labeled with me as "what is wrong with this site" because we do not have the same reality tunnel as you do. Again, people do not know what they do not know. If you can explain to me how I would describe color and music to a blind and deaf person, then I might be able to help you understand.



You are a scientific materialist. Don't be frustrated by what you are. This is your perception of the world, do not be ashamed of it or try to run from it. You have a valid perspective (which I have said many many times, even though it is as far to one extreme as one can get and dogmatic) and I really enjoy your contribution to threads when you can do it in a thoughtful and intelligent manner. Unfortunately you often cop an attitude and treat people like shit who do not think as you do. If we were in a true debate format, you would lose them all with your inability to restrain your passion which impairs your logic and ability to communitate your position to the best of your ability. It is not what you say, it is HOW you say it.

As time has gone on, you have become more insult than fact, and sadly that degrades the entire conversation (I could say board, but won't as that is just too absurd a statement to make about one person.)

I cant even believe people still want to even discuss this stuff.

Well you only have to deal with it for another two years

Me thinks it will be less than that.

And I'm not discussing, I'm responding to personal attacks.

A “straw man” is defined as “An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.”

Most of burnt’s arguments are straw man arguments. He attributes ridiculous claims to “you folks” or “you people” so as to distinguish himself from imaginary others, and then he proceeds to attack points of view or ideas that don’t even have any proponents. Amusing. Sometimes. Well, no… never.


Well, actually there are nice ways to tell people that what they believe is baseless speculation. You choose not to exercise humility and compassion when engaged in a disagreement, but that’s your choice. (And I don’t know if you realize it or not, but most of the above quote could apply just as well to you as it could to those you are attacking – just replace “viral psychedelic marketing” with “conventional mainstream McBeliefs”.)