Hey,

I recently had a very interesting experience with ketamine. I have never felt drawn towards NMDA antagonists (ketamine, PCP, DXM, etc), but when ketamine just 'fell out of the sky', I had to try it. I know, nasty drug and all that, but boy, this experience made me interested... As I am no big fan of synthetic drugs, I was wondering if it exists any plants containing substances with similar effects.

I know ibogaine acts as a NMDA antagonist, but then again it acts on pretty much everything. What I am looking for is a plant that either in its whole form or as an extract of any sort acts in a similar way as the three mentioned substances.

Could anyone help me out here?

Very nice! I find it especially interesting that it is in the Psychotria genus. Do you know what effects the substances in question have? They do have a very different structure than the usual NMDA antagonists, so my guess would be a very different effect. Extremely interesting nonetheless, thanks mate!

you're welcome

i'd imagine the effects are similar to kratom alkaloids, which also have indolic structures and are rumored to have NMDA antagonism

Im really interested in ketamine and NMDA antagonists as well..never tried any of them though. Can you go into more detail about your ketamine experience, if you dont mind? I find the positive ketamine reports facinating.

It is really hard to put it in words. While experiences with normal entheogens are hard enough to write up, ketamine really is in another league. At least to me. The experience started with some pleasant stimulation together with a stoned feeling, sort of like smoking some good marijuana together with leaves of Sida acuta (ephedrine). I was then hit with a great sense of... WTF. Yeah, I had this intense feeling of 'what the fuck'. Sort of like watching Japanese television for the first time.

Everything was extremely distorted. Not only what I saw, heard and felt, but the very sense of myself, my existence and the existence of the world around me. I sort of felt like a young child again, pure and without knowledge. It's really very hard to describe... I then looked around and had these amazing open-eyed visuals. Nothing like I have ever had before. Looking at the distance to the door perhaps four meters in front of me, it looked to me like an endless tunnel, which soon turned into a spiral of some sort.

The colors of the walls turned into colors I have never before witnessed. Everything around me took on a whole new form and shape, nothing like the breathing effect on tryptamines, everything was just... very different. It was as if I saw the world for the very first time. I felt like I could melt into any object around me, my sense of the border between me and for instance the table, was nearly completely abolished. This may sound like a lame-ass experience, but trust me, it was not. Not at all. I just don't really know how I could else explain it...

The experience only lasted an hour or so, and really left me with a great feeling that lasted throughout the day. I was in totally safe environments, just as I like to be when trying new substances. I now really feel the urge to eat a high dose of mushrooms out in the woods, taking a large amount of ketamine on the peak of the trip. I have a feeling that this will be an incredible experience...

NMDA antags = vision like 8mm film @ 8-12 fps

Hahaha, yeah, that's as good a description as possible!

My first experience with Ketamine occurred almost 10 years ago now, in Southern Cambodia of all places!

Sitting on a bus from Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville in the South, I met a guy from the same country as myself and we got chatting.It later turned out that he had spent several months in China where his heroin habit had been carelessly nurtured and he was on a roundabout trip back home to get into rehab.Needless to say, and as is often the case, the topic of intoxicants came up and we found we had a fair bit in common.

We reached our destination, booked into a guesthouse and then hit the local chemists shop.Back then Cambodia was like a sweetshop for heads as you could just purchase stuff like pharmaceutical grade morphine tartrate for injection, diazepam,rohypnol,seconal, tuinal,dexedrine,ethyl-amphetamine and DXM in the same way you would purchase coffee or cigarettes.

We chat to the chemist and eventually we ask for ketamine.The shopkeeper raised his eyebrows, put his finger to his lips in a silencing motion and said in a low voice 'Ahhh ketamine? Confidential!'.

He nipped into the back of the shop then returned clutching a glass bottle containg 50mls of Bulgarian Ketamine, 50mg/ml, with the brandname 'Calypsol' and an expiry date some 6 weeks away.He passed it to us and said '100mg, no more,no more!'.This cost us the princely sum of 10 US dollars.

We purchased clean works (and some rohypnol as well) and headed back.The guy I was with had taken it before and assured me that 75mg IM was more than enough.We were both familiar with using a needle and it held few qualms for us particularly as the K was pharmaceutical grade.

We load up 1.5mls of the juice in 2 syringes and dimmed the lights then hit each other up simultaneously into our deltoid muscles.It needs to be injected slowly as it can sting a bit.

What struck me was the speed at which it hit-by the time the needles had been withdrawn and rinsed out a deep sense of foreboding was evident after a minute or so.I lay back and then didnt speak for the next 40 minutes.

There is something ineffable about the experience.Visually its not anywhere near as impressive as DMT but it takes you far far beyond where DMT can take you as the disconnect factor is so profound it leaves all of the indole/tryptaminergic compounds way behind.I think it would be too much for someone who hadnt sampled the conventional psychedelics as they felt like simply a stepping stone to this place, a place where you really felt that you understood the 'true nature of things' with a totally dispassionate perspective.I think the fact that all bodily awareness is lost adds to the magic of this 'version of reality'.

I remember thinking 'Oh shit.I may have gone too far here.What if I die here and my parents have to come to Cambodia to fetch my corpse and take it back home....?'.Now a thought like this on the usual psychedelics would, for me, set off the spiral of negativity causing a major head-mash, but the K didnt cause anxiety in me and I accepted this thought with no sadness.

The memory fades with time but it was a most enjoyable experience but not in the same euphoric way as with LSD/psilocybin/DMT etc , it was more like looking at the whole of all that exists as an outside observer. So hard to do it justice in prose but imagine if you can, taking a large hit of DMT which pushes you to the point where there is nothing obviously useful to take from the experience.Ketamine kind of propels you beyond this where the concept of useful or useless has no meaning which strikes a chord with the user.

I have since tried K orally and it is vastly inferior to the IM route, and I wouldnt want to IV it as I suspect the onset would be unmanageably quick.

'Holiday in Cambodia'- the Dead Kennedys knew the score!!!

The first time I tried it I felt exactly like a kid at christmas, pure nostalgia.
I could smell cookiedough and I had the feeling of opening presents haha!

I've had very mixed experiences with ket, sometimes it's very nice and pleasant, some times it
makes me feel like vomiting and like I've completly lost my marbles never coming back.

...I dont like the numb face

Here's another plant that supposedly contains hodgkinsine
Hodgkinsonia frutescens

http://www.shaman-austra...ndex.php?showtopic=18108

...might be hard to get a hold plants but there seems to be quite some plants that
produces hodgkinsine so maybe you'll find some.

and also

Rhynchophylline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhynchophylline

...can be found in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncaria_tomentosa ("It is often added to Ayahuasca."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncaria_rhynchophylla

fucking.....meow man

What about piri-piri? I still have some of it lying somewhere, not knowing what to do with it when it was given to ma as a free sample.
Evening glory sugested (in the lysergics forum) that it contains NMDA antagonists instead of lysergic's.

Thanks imPsimon, that's wonderful!


Excuse me?


Oh yeah, that's true! I forgot about that one, thanks for reminding me! Cyperus articulatus (notice that the piri-piri in question is not the chili) does seem to be an NMDA antagonist, although I don't know anything about what the active principles might be.

I'm interested in NMDA-antagonism as well...but would like to go about in a different way than ketamine, dxm, or pcp.

I found that in an article :
Extracts from Searsia dentata and Searsia pyroides showed spontaneous epileptiform
discharge in mouse cortical slices, and acted as NMDA-receptor antagonists...

Muscimol is a good candidat, and possibly voacanga africana (from the SWIM's Bioessays).

After further research, Voacanga is indeed a NMDA antaonist. That's why SWIM found it some dissociative properties. SWIM had only experienced once with rootbark extract so far.
It is nice without any body load nor mind fuck. Just a clean, enjoyable experience.

Ibogaine, voacangine and a few related substances are indeed NMDA antagonists, but they bind to next to anything, not only NMDA. What I personally is looking for is a plant-based substance with high affinity for NMDA and none to minimal affinity for other receptors.

BTW, how would you prepair Piri piri ?
In what dosages ?