For some odd reason, my friend had a really bad experience with his first pharmahuasca use. He took 100mg of Caapi Copy thoroughly dissolved in orange juice, then ten minutes later took 100mg of Caapi Copy and 90 mg of spice in more orange juice. The total amount of orange juice consumed was about a cup (or 250 mL).

His stomach was neither particularly empty nor particularly full. He reported nausea within minutes of taking the half-cup of orange juice that had the spice in it. Somehow, this messed his stomach up for days! The trip itself was rather miserable -- no hyperspace, but an excessive amount of tryptamine anxiety and RIMA head-fog that was probably made worse by the fact that he LOCKED HIS SITTER OUT OF THE ROOM during a bathroom break. That caused him to be unaccompanied during the 2-3 hours of strongest effects. He says he was glad that nobody saw him in the condition he was in, but really, he probably wouldn't have been in such bad shape if a sober person had been there to help him out.

However, the intense negativity of the trip isn't the subject of this post. The trip is already over, and measures are in place to prevent and effectively deal with future bad trips. What I'm asking about is how he can deal with the nausea problem. His friend (Demetrius, the same one that he shared the turmeric extract with a few weeks ago) used the exact same dose and administration method for pharmahuasca at the same time, yet only had mild effects and about 10 minutes of mild nausea. Go figure.

Anyway, my friend said he kept wanting to throw up into his trashcan to make the nausea feel better, but he couldn't remember how to make himself throw up and the nausea was just under the threshold for vomiting to occur automatically. In fact, his stomach felt bad all of the next day, and most of the day after that. He managed the nausea pretty well by making lots and lots of ginger tea, which is a very effective anti-nausea agent.

Now, if it were me, I would just stay away from pharmahuasca and put the Caapi Copy together with the spice into some changa. Seems like a vastly more efficient use of the Caapi Copy anyway. But I'm not the one who uses schedule I substances, so whatever. He doesn't want to give up on pharmahuasca. What can he do, aside from pre-dosing with copious amounts of ginger tea, to deal with the nausea? Should he make himself throw up if there's nausea that won't go away? Or is there something else he can do to avoid the nausea in the first place? None of us ever thought that nausea would even be an issue for Caapi Copy and spice dissolved in orange juice!

My swim is very novice at this, let me say that in the first place, but it seems to me that 100mg of cc was probably enough.
100mg followed by another 100mg later may have been too much.
In swims limited experience he had used 150mg cc and had the same issues and he's going to 100mg next time.
The last time he used 100mg cc things were very light and trippy and it was good.

3 datura stramonium seeds and less acidic stuff in the belly ;]
Maybe chase the dose with a piece of toast

How fortuitous that his order of Caapi Copy came with a free gift of 10 datura stramonium seeds!

The advice for less acid in the stomach, and bland food chasing the dose, will be helpful. As will the suggestion to use less of the CC, which is pretty expensive. After all, lots of people report using 200mg, but my friend could probably get by with 150 or even 100 because he's so thin.

As a side note, a pretty large amount of ginger will probably precede the next pharmahuasca experience anyway. Hopefully all of these measures will prevent that sort of trip again. Much appreciated you two!

I think the nausea is normal with harmalas..everyones dose level is different..harmalas will make you nauseated at a certain point. If you are so warped that you have forgotten how to puke I would be hesitant to dose any more..sometimes ayahuasca is very mental for me without much visions..other times its more visionary..thats just the way it seems to go.

Less acid as well might help..also puking if you really have the need to puke that badly..ayahuasca is used to purge out toxins..if you feel that sickness with these things, and dont purge I can see how that could bother your stomache a bit the next day..

Just as house said 3 datura stramonium seeds will aid in the nausea.

Although it's pretty typical to use 200mg harmalas along with however much molecule your using. But everyone is different..psychological/physiological/etc.

Just experiment with dosages to find that sweet spot. SWIMs did quite a bit of trial and error with pharma/aya.

Also doing a mini diet and abstaining from sugar/alcohol/salt/beef/chicken/pork/spicy foods/etc can also help aid in the intensity of your journey with pharma/aya and help kinda "prime" your body for the massive undertaking.

Good luck on you and your friends journeys!

Heh heh, forgetting how to puke is a bit of a problem. I wondered if piracetam beforehand would help in preventing such a drastic level of cognitive impairment, but some people have reported anxiety when using piracetam with the spice. Perhaps this should first be tried with smoked DMT so if it does cause anxiety, it won't last as long.

Also: pepto bismol beforehand! Why didn't we think of that earlier? It tastes bad coming back up, but hopefully that combined with the ginger and probably just 1 or 2 datura stramonium seeds will work fine. Datura seems kind of scary.

Are you sure your spice is clean? was it food-safe extraction? is it possible there was some solvent remains or whatever? Is it possible you ate something bad that day?

I ask because of you saying you had fucked up stomach for days! thats really weird..

I have nausea normally with pure alkaloids even if they are really clean, but the nausea is only there on the come up and sometimes the peak but it disappears later on during the trip. It might have to do with serotonin signalling in the guts, and taking some strong ginger tea def helps (though its not fool proof)!

I personally would avoid pharmaceuticals with it, but thats just me.

I try to take the nausea as a lesson, reminding me about my mortality and my weaknesses, and whenever its gone (whether I purged or not) its an amazing feeling too. But if you have bad stomach for days, thats really not right!

How are your eating habbits in general?

The extraction used non-food safe materials, i.e. naphtha. However, the crystals were evaporated as thoroughly as possible, and crushed and re-evaporated several times even after the naphtha smell went away completely. There were some plant oils present. Would mimosa oils cause this sort of problem?


Friend said that he washed the solvent with bicarbonate water a few times and as a result there was absolutely zero burning when some of the spice was put on the tip of his tongue. Spice from the same batch which was smoked was not at all harsh. This is in contrast to what happened a time that he only did a single solvent wash and got spice that burned the tip of the tongue and was harsh to smoke.


Eating habits are unremarkable except that there isn't enough eating. He stays away from trans fats, large amounts of saturated fats, colas, and fast food. This is very hard for a college student to do, especially one who has a weakness for pizza! That said, he says that he usually has sandwiches, cereal, non-fried meats, dairy products, fruit juices, and the like. Except when he caves and gets pizza.

Perhaps he needed a purge and got messed up because he didn't do it? There's no real way to know what happened in the past. Just hopes and plans to make the future better.

I'm bumping this thread with good reason -- to report that ginger may actually be one of the BEST options for dealing with nausea/vomiting from alkaloid ingestion. It may be as good as some powerful nausea medicines that are normally prescription only, and used for chemotherapy nausea and morning sickness. Why? Because ginger contains galanolactone, which is a 5-HT3 antagonist. This means that it decreases or blocks activity at 5-HT3 receptors. Who cares? People who get nausea from RIMAs and psychedelics, and don't enjoy purging, that's who!

endlessness, your comment about serotonin signalling in the gut got me to thinking. What does serotonin do in the gut? Well, if it attaches to a 5-HT3 receptor, it triggers nausea signals to be sent to the brain. In high enough amounts, it can trigger the brain to initiate the vomiting reflex. What else triggers the 5-HT3 receptor? Harmala alkaloids for one, and also many serotonergic psychedelics like DMT and LSA/LSH! Datura seeds contain anticholinergic alkaoids that decrease the activity of nausea and vomiting centers of the brain. Benadryl, Dramamine, and Dramamine Non-Drowsy (meclizine)also do anticholinergic activity, as well as antihistamine activity at histamine receptors associated with nausea and vomiting. This is why datura, or any of those medicines, can help with nausea. But they aren't dealing with the cause of the nausea, which is 5-HT3 activity in the gut. They just make the brain less sensitive to nausea signals.

Ginger, on the other hand, does contain the aforementioned anti-5HT3 chemical galanolactone. This is not water soluble, meaning that it doesn't go into the water of ginger tea. It's also apparently not present in the essential oil. It seems to stay in the ginger root itself when subjected to water extraction (making tea) or steam distillation (making essential oil). Acetone will extract it -- but an acetone extraction is not necessary to get the galanolactone into the gut. What needs to happen is the ginger root matter itself needs to get into the gut. This is why my friend found that ginger tea works so much better for serotonin nausea when the bits of ginger are swallowed along with the tea. In fact, it probably isn't necessary to make tea at all. The whole ginger root could be grated or pulverized and then swallowed as a mush, or perhaps wrapped in something like a piece of bread so that the pure ginger isn't sitting directly on the tongue and burning the living fuck out of it.

So, in conclusion: getting a hefty dose of ginger root, fresh or dried (fresh probably works better but is harder to get down), should work wonders for alkaloid-induced nausea because it can block the alkaloids from ever activating the nausea-related receptors in the digestive system in the first place. Theory is, of course, useless if not applicable to real life. An actual report of the use of pulverized ginger will follow the next time that my friend uses a nausea-inducing alkaloid orally.

Awesome post, yeah I was aware of the 5-HT3 antagonism of ginger, but I was not aware of galanolactone not being water soluble! Good to know! I do normally eat the bits of ginger from the tea because I like it (sometimes it feels like I get effects just from ginger but could be placebo) but I didnt know this probably made all the difference!

Thanks for the info!

Thank YOU for mentioning serotonin signalling in the gut, because if you hadn't said that, I would never have done the research to find all that information out!

Would a tums help neutralize the excess acid from the oj and stomach acid? I cant imagine that the tums would ever neutralize it too much.

Tums should definitely help reduce the acid if necessary. However, I'm not certain I understand how orange juice would create excessive acidity in the stomach. The stomach's acidic secretions tend to be around pH 1 or so, but orange juice is usually pH 2-3.5 if I recall correctly. So a stomach full of orange juice should be less acidic than an empty stomach that only has HCl acid in it, right? Or do I have these numbers wrong?