I am new here, and not sure this kind of posting is allowed, so I appologise ahead of time if I am out of line. But I hope what I have to say is of interest and evokes response.

First off, I am interested in the effects of DMT but probably will not be trying it, although I do live in the land where the big toads wander at night in the rainy season, ready for milking. I'm just too old and, actually, spaced out enough as it is. Many experiences described in this site are familiar to me without drugs (spiritual visitations, teachers materializing from the void, non-corporeal entities showing up for impromtu conversations)...BUT, I am a researcher for an organization (Starfield Foundation, starfieldfound.net)which is looking into the connection between art, religion and drug use in ancient Mexico and across the Americas,... and I could use some help.

From my research, I am guessing a lot of the art from ancient times is linked to drug-assisted interdimentional contact, such as DMT appears to produce for some users. There seems to have been regular, repeated contact with certain specific entities. I am trying to figure out if different entities are associated with different drugs (some are nice, some not so nice, and could the differences come from the nature of different drugs of choice). I am wondering if what you encounter during DMT experiences can be related to what the ancients encountered on their trips. As a sideline to this, I suspect some of the religious figures from ancient times were aliens, perhaps interdimensional visitors, whose strange attributes and technology awed and inspired the locals at places like Teotihuacan.

For example, the Aztec (and others) venerated the "rain god" Tlaloc. This dude wore goggles and had a lot of really big teeth sticking out of his mouth. He is sometimes represented with a feathery head-dress with three eyes across the headband and a mouth that resembles a wood chipper or blender encased in a bird beak-hinged mouth. His wife/sister/mother/feamle attribute (these characteristics get blurred over time) sports butterflies and flowers and wears a jade (or blue) net skirt representing water and fertility, but she's got spiders in her hair, drips water and seeds from her finger tips, wears a bird mask and has claws on her toes.

In the American Southwest, and among the Maya, clowns inhabit the clouds and bring rain after playing around with folks, punishing them with laughter that enlightens and releases tension, and from this release comes the healing rains. Dwarfs are featured as holding up the four corners of the universe and as helpers to many different religious figures. At Tuluum, an entire city was built at 3/4 scale for them, but most were said to have left for another dimension before Cortez arrived. However, sightings continue to this day.

Sound familiar?

What I am saying is, ancient cultural traditions apparently used drugs the same way you do, to increase awareness of self and to construct meaning outside of ordinary reality in a space where helpers are available if certain challenges are met. It sounds like you all are quite serious about your activities...I would like to open a dialog to compare ancient myths and religious concepts with your personal experiences, to draw connections and perhaps discover new insights.

Anyone interested?


This thread have been moved from "introduction essays" to the current section in order to reach a larger audience. -Evening Glory

Excellent premise! I expect that your query will be welcomed.

Welcome, all very interesting. Stick around. Maybe even smoke some DMT sometime :]

I really, really would suggest smoking some, or taking ayahuasca.
Your interest IS in DMT.
Not in the ideas around it.

If you are interested, it wants you to have this experience.

Think about it ^^

Great thoughts, it's all so very strange. Welcome!

I appreciate your advice and encouragement to embrace the actuality (which is apparently calling me) but I'm grounded by current medications (this fading flower child is beginning to wilt) and will have to settle (for now, at least) for vicarious experiences.

I just figured out how to add photos! Very cool.
The two I attached come from the Veracruz area, home of the Olmecs, one of the oldest cultures in Mexico. You may be familiar with the football-helmeted Aftrican-looking heads as seen in National Geographic articles (usually 5 to 8 feet tall, carved out of stone, just the head, no body). Internet sites comment on how negroid they look, and how this may show there were folks from Africa visiting the Americas long before Columbus. What you don't usually get to see are the heads that don't look quite human. Could they represent visitors from a bit farther away?

I look for obvious differences. Many "gods" in ancient Mesoamerican art have really strange mouths. So strange, they are usually shown with a gold ornament hung off the nose to cover the mouth. I think this was originally done so that us poor humans wouldn't freak out trying to communicate with them. Later, it became cool for humans to wear the gold ornnaments just for drill, after the aliens had gone.

Look at the mouths here. They definately aren't quite human.

My question to you (as a group) is...have you met these guys?

I will be adding more examples, so please check back.

Thanks!

When I saw the title of your post it reminded me of Terrence McKenna and his experiences with mushrooms. He once mentioned something about the origins of various design motifs of the mayans and southwestern cultures and their possible derivation from the repeated use of psilocybin. So if swiy can find some shrooms, he may be in for a treat. The images are interesting.

There are certain reoccurring motifs swim sees during spice journeys,
but they are very alien and not of this earth. He loves them.

Glad to have you here. Welcome.

Thank you, Jumper. I am glad to be here. I will continue to post images from ancient art which I think might be trying to illustrate the visions/visitations swimmers experience with spice. Please check back...you may help me identify these links.

Whoa,
that first statue really brought me back to a place I had not thought about in a long time...
I can't even believe how insanely alien and real all of this is

I too have been face to face with the futuristicly goggled...

Thanks for your comments! Would you care to elaborate?

Was your experience with the goggled ones positive, negative or otherwise something you could describe further?

Here are a few more images to consider. These come from Guatemala, from a somewhat isolated culture where something interesting happened. Beings with wings fell from the sky accompanied by little dudes playing with colorful balls, and sometimes human heads. Some lady with a body of a snake figures higly in the story. (In China, the Adam & Eve figures were people on top and snakes on the bottom...)

I am familiar with the concept of "tykes", engaged in some kind of play therapy in order to "educate" us for a more accessible interaction. I have also heard them described as Ferengi-types, out to trade for profit. Is it possible the Maya somehow opened a door for these folks to interact in our dimension?

I tend to think of images with wings as a metaphor for flight...like, the winged warriors flew here in some kind of craft...But it could also mean they came from the "sky" of another dimension. Or an "ocean"...so you'd put fish scales...or if your visitors were reptialian (as many UFO researchers claim) you'd put scales as well as feathers...How would you describe interdimensional space/time shifts to folks who didn't have a vocabulary for it?

Anyway...find anything familiar here?

I frequently meet Snakewoman. Half snake, half woman (bottom and top respectively). Often this is on sub-breakthrough dose, and she can be quite malevolent in nature. "Jealous" is the word that comes to mind; often highly sexually charged. Serpentine coils are a common feature, even when they do not have as defined an identity as snakewoman. My dear friend has also had frequent meetings with snakewoman; by all accounts we are seeing the same entity.

Recently I met a snakeman as well, who seemed more grumpy than malevolent, but he was broadly okay with me once he had seen my posture of gratitude and respect ... I see the snake people as sort of gatekeepers, guardians of the temple of you like.

Interesting research, btw - thanks for sharing it here.

88, thanks for posting your thoughts! There are snakes all over the ancient artwork I'm studying, from the Nagas of the lost continent of MU, through India, China, Japan, and across the Americas. They usually represent wisdom (unlike the Garden Of Eden) but also the kundalini (power flow that "snakes" up your spine when your chackras align, either with or without chemical assistance). The actual beings these images represent would probably have personalities grounded in power issues like jealousy and respect. Do you have any impressions of where they are located (what sort of environment/location/dimension)?

The Mayans often represented leaders seeking visions by piercing themselves, taking some spice or another, and then speaking to faces like themselves coming out of the mouths of snakes.

Does this sound or look familiar?

Thanks Fiashly. I will certainly check out the books you mentioned.

The experience of the divine is a powerful thing.I am a believer!I know there are Others out there...one materialized on the seat beside me while I was driving down the freeway, which made conversation/communication difficult. The personage was beautiful, constructed of intertwined tubes or tendrils of glowing irredescences vaguely shaped to conform to human form. I was comforted by this visit and felt non-verbal communication between us. But driving grabbed my focus...and it left me. Driving puts me in an altered state...my friends don't let me drive long distances unsupervised!

Great stuff Chalchiuhtlicue, I had a long response typed up the other day but accidentally clicked on the close browser command. How frustrating.

The first two heads you posted remind me of many entities I've encountered (and apparently encountered me) through a combination of inhaled DMT vapor and pre-dose with Syrian Rue or B. caapi. The consistent features of these various entities are the two eyes looking right back at me. These entities have come in many forms - octopi, Ganesha-like many-trunked elephants, octopi, owls, falcons, Hyperspace police detectives (coming to investigate what I'm up to; the universe indeed has a sense of humour), and a very strange elf-like tryptamine cowboy being I call "Harmala Man" since he has only appeared when the harmaloids are added to the mix. They come in all sorts of varieties but they look back at me very intently, as if scanning me for both visual and other signals. The eyes on the second statue in particular remind me of the eyes that are always gazing back, regardless of the entity to which they belong. The eyes in my icon are the same eyes...

Also after DMT intake I frequently feel like your first picture looks. My body becomes outside of my control; it's like the cosmic forces take over and move my body into an erect lotus position like a sitting Buddha. Your first picture is an excellent depiction of how this feels. The attached photos may help illustrate this.

The second set of pictures you posted, particularly the second one with the gift being offered to the sun-god, strike me as being morning-glory/LSA-related. The Aztecs and certain inhabitants of the Oaxaca area are reported to have used the morning-glories as a way to commune with the Sun, and their rites were correspondingly held during the daytime. Morning-glories as live plants also LOVE the sun and full sunlight. Coincidence?

Thanks for the hint about morning glory. I have read about this (and its contemporary use), and there are representations of morning glory flowers and seeds ALL OVER Mexican art (ancient and modern). I recognize there are different reactions and experiences to different drugs, and that drugs are localized according to availability (climate, growing condidtions, trade routes, etc.). I am interested in going deeper into the possible correspondence between druge use and religion
in the various areas where each substance is traditionally imbibed.

The EYES...yes, there are a lot of eyes in MesoAmerican art. In another part of my life, I have been a therapist for at risk teens. Very often the psychotic ones draw eyes...eyes in the sky, eyes all over people's bodies, just one great big eye...which I think relates to your impression. The "all seeing eye" on the dollar bill and in Egyptian art is also this eye, this concept of being searched because the universe wants to know what we're up to. YES!

The eye is used as a motif in Mesoamerican art and also in India and China. Statues with eyes in the center of foreheads, hands with an eye in the palm, or just patterns of eyes inserted into complex decorative panels.

Another feature of eyes in Mesoamerica is the lack of human pupils. Eyes that have a swirly vertical line where the pupil ought to be. This occurs on statues of people but also of snakes and monsters. Often beings with the strange eyes have strange mouths, hinged more like a snake than a human.

My question/quest is: 1. Do these beings (interdimentional,alien) you see correspond to what the ancient Mesoamerican drug-taking people saw and recorded in their art, and 2. Does the art jsut represent images brought back from drug experiences or did these beings transcend and materialize on this plane? If so, are they still here? Did they leave? Are they coming back?

Your input helps me with the first one. The second quest may take me into stranger territory than here on this site. I will, however, watch out for the eyes.

Having very recently (last 24) experienced DMT, I can say that the environment and the beings (?) undoubtedly had the aztec/mayan motif. Only they were the color of molten crayon wax; yellow, reg, green , orange. I dont know if my subconscious was merely pre-supposed to it having recently seen this thread.....but looking back it makes 100% sense to me that the mesoamericans were experiencing some tryptamine or another. To me, at this point, its a forgone conclusion that their art and style is HEAVILY influenced by 'WHAT I SAW AND WHERE I WAS' last night.

Chalchiuhtlucue.....if you are ever afforded the opportunity, GO THERE. Having done a lot of reading and wondering about DMT myself before doing it, I can tell you that no amount of reading or imagining can come anywhere close to the real experience.

As an afterthought...for me the places/energies/beings I encountered also took on a vague "Ancient Egyptian" quality. In terms of shapes and level of intricacy.

Thank you, B.N. Yes, I will have to keep in mind tripping myself but for now it's against dr.s orders. At the same time, your experiences confirm my questions. I hope you check back and see the images I just poster, which remind me very much of crayon drawings. They come from Teotihuacan, near Mexico City, and I can assure you drugs were invovled. I'm wondering if the beings they met and recorded in their art are the same sort you are meeting. They apparently built their entire civilization on the results of their meeting with these beings and I wonder if technological nformation was exchanged along the way. If so, did they cross over into this dimention or was the transmission purely vision-related.

Do you feel that with practice and desire, you could "bring back" civilization-shaping ideas? I have read now that most people have short, intense sessions and that the beings seem to be scoping folks out. Are they looking for the individuals who "take" to this kind of experience and who can "share" and "bring back" info? Is this something that only a few folks could do? Is this the beginning of organized religions? Where the leaders look for the upcoming "priests", those with the innate ability to function while all spiced up?

I think what I'm seeing in the art is people being trained to use spice to communicate with the Others. To do this, they often cut on themselves to draw blood which they smear on paper and burn it (in the picture of the lady talking to the dragon, there is a bowl with papers ready to burn....it's under the snake)...I am curious why blood gets involved. Aren't drugs enough? How did they get the idea that the beings want blood to be part of the process?

This could be related to something genetic...here's my blood so you can see that I"m one of the chosen few you can talk to...maybe the original contact involved a blood sample...maybe some of us are hybrids, which might take a blood sample to corraborate...and it just got out of hand over time, the farther away in time folks got from the innitial contact. I am hoping that's what it is...I think I have some additional insights about how the process works, and I'd like it better if no blood was involved.


Here's the scenario that's shaping in my mind on the relationship between drugs, pyramids, aliens and ancient civilizations:

Pyramids just may be built on places where the veil between dimensions is very thin. The shape and design of ancient pyramids creates a mild but constant electrically charged field. Some researchers think the pyramids at Giza glowed in the dark...I think the "kings chamber" was a place where people went to get charged, probably while on spice, to communicate and possibly to shapeshift or dimension shift. Or, from some accounts, it could be that beings from other dimensions took over the bodies (an essence shift) of humans who were prepared for the process in the pyramids. This could also be true in the Americas. In both areas, the pyramids were built over cave systems with ground water that works with the pyramid to create the charge...or, if no natural system was there, one was dug. This theory is worked out in a series called The Pyramid Code (http://www.pyramidcode.com/) which I'm still checking out. But it makes sense to me. The pyramids took way too much labor to have just been tombs. Power generators for dimensional shifting...that would be worth the effort. Particularly if the domination of the earth was the prize. I don't think we built them...I think THEY built them (or cooericed us to build 'em for them)...But, to get back on track here....I see a whole political structure built up around the interdimensional transfer process. In order to deal with the "aliens" you had to be able to function on spice. So everyone took it and those who passed went on to be trained. Those who got good at it worked the process full time, and trade goods (or the knowledge to make them) (and perhaps people) passed through the veil between dimensions.
But somewhere along the line the process broke down. People forgot how to get across. Or, those who knew got killed and the knowledge was lost. Wars, disease...things happen which shape the direction of civilization...

So here we are today, with folks meeting doorkeepers intent on prying their minds and I'm wondering: If the right people took the drug, met the doorkeepers and passed the test, would they eventually learn to work the process and bring back useful information/technology/and, perhaps, the visitors themselves?

Would we want this to happen?
Or should we let sleeping dogs lie?

I strongly, strongly suspect this.

I was just there, at Teotihuacan, and it feels trippy just being there. The veil is very thin. Time just sorta stops. If you're ever in the area...it would appear to be an interesting location for experiencing spice.