NOTE: WHILE THIS DID WORK, IT WAS VERY LOW YIELDING AND NOT A VERY GOOD WAY TO GET CRYSTAL DMT.


SWIM has posted his findings (based on blueskine's original concept) about converting DMT and Full spectrum "jimjam" into pure smokable freebase recently.

Until now it was only based on the solubility in water and effects from smoking, now there is POSITIVE PROOF.


Experiment:

Goal: Pull freebase DMT with naptha from heated/freebased acetates and freezer precipitate them.

SWIM evaporated his one of his acetate tinctures containing ~480mg of jimjam in 25ml water and 5 ml vinegar.
The method of evaporation was a flat-bottom dish suspended over simmering water (7 setting on his stove)



While the water was almost gone the red goo smelled strongly of vinegar.
The dish continued to be heated over the simmering water until the vinegar smell seemed to be almost gone.

SWIM was worried that putting the dish over full-boiling water may create a loss of product, SWIM knows that the boiling point of freebase DMT is slightly above 100C
(it is recorded as 60-80C but this is completely false, freebase DMT can survive in boiling water, SWIM has tested it)

Anyway, because of that SWIM felt he'd try his first pull while the mix still smelled slightly of vinegar.
~5-7ml (eyeballed) of naptha was added and mixed with a fingertip, it was poured into a shot glass where it immediately started clouding. SWIM put it in the freezer.

Meanwhile the pot was put under MAX heat. For about 15 minutes the dish was heated and with a quick sniff, no vinegar was smelled, only a faint smell of DMT
(not dmt smoke, but plain DMT smell)

~15ml (eyeballed) was added and mixed with a fingertip again (it was quite hot)
The shot glass in the freezer had yet to crystallize but was very cloudy, SWIM added the 15ml over the original naptha.

The remainder was 200-225mg (goo is hard to measure) of jungle freebase which was just barely dissolved in 20ml of warm vinegar. (Jungle seems much less soluble than jimjam)

Now about 30 minutes later the naptha looks like this:



White freebase DMT. The end yield was 72mg, this could be a loss of yield, or maybe during the use of the partially dissolved tincture he skewed the concentration. Also there were small impurities seen in the goo.

SWIM knows that jungle will not vaporize when exposed to hot steam, though some of the N-N-DMT and/or N-N-DMT-oxide may have vaporized.

SWIM will experiment with the next batch and measure the goo before, then place over a MAX pot for 30 minutes and re-measure.


Theoretical Q/A

SWIY says:
So.... What does this mean? Do I have to use naptha in my extractions? ....I don't get it.

SWIM says:
This is purely proof that heating DMT acetate to 100C freebases the DMT into a pure and smokable product without the need for any solvents (apart from the initial use of limonene)

In the past this meant messy procedures using sodium carbonate with poor yields and brown end-products. Now all that is needed is a pot and a container that can withstand steam.

There is no need to separate the products like SWIM did, the goo is pure freebase smokable jimjam which can be dissolve in vinegar or another acid (and mixed with something for taste) for pharma. Or mixed with a minimal amount of vinegar for lingahuasca.

SWIY says:
So where do I get a tincture with jimjam acetates......

SWIM says:
That was made by a similar method.
using d-limonene to extract the jimjam off of basified MHRB.
Then the limonene is separated.
25ml of vinegar is added to the limonene (vinegar sinks under limonene) it is then shaken well for 5 minutes.
The bottom vinegar is separated and then evaporated indirectly over boiling water to yield a red goo.

SWIM's tincture was made my measuring and re-dissolving the leftover goo into vinegar and water (need 1ml 5% vinegar for ~150mg of DMT, SWIM guesstimates, 50/50 should work)
Though there is no need to do that if you want a smokable product, the leftover goo will be smokable freebase if it is heated until it no longer smells of vinegar, just like above.

SWIY say:
(Dunno, SWIM writes so he understands it and tends to leave out info, feel free to post a question)

wow..thats pretty badass...id like to give this a try one of these days

SWIM was pondering a completely base-less tek, no lye, no lime, no sodium carbonate.

if this works the way it SHOULD...you wont even need to touch dlimo..here is another idea

take vinegar and water in some ratio...put powdered rootbark in THP(herbal percolator) run through it many times..and then use fresh stuff to wash it one more time..reduce the liquid in double boiler..and then scrape up remaining stuff...

this should be smokeable as is..it may not be pretty but i bet it would work fine

ya, SWIM was talking to his roomie about that, apparently using IPA can make a 40-60% pure product so basically it could be used to make a smokable resin like virola resin!

Very cool work my friend!

I will be using vinegar instead of FASI for my next extraction so I can check it out myself.

Thanks for all of your experimental work!

Pokey

It's probably not going to work. I’ll tell you why.

The salt form of DMT in Mimosa hostilis is likely DMT tannate, but that doesn’t really matter. Tannic acid has a pKa of about 6, and acetic acid has a pKa of about 4.78, so acetic acid is a stronger acid. I’m not sure if it’s strong enough to turn DMT tannate into DMT acetate though. In order for that kind of reaction to happen, the acid needs to have a certain amount of attraction to the DMT that is strong enough to push the tannic acid away. For sure hydrochloric acid can do it, but acetic acid? I’m not sure.

The problem is, even if acetic acid could pull off the tannic acid from DMT tannate, when you dried the extract or heated it to make the DMT acetate freebase, it would then re-salt with the tannic acid or any other acid left in the mix and you’ll be back to where you started. Tannic acid is a solid and doesn’t evaporate away.

In order for this to work, the Mimosa can’t have another acid in it that’s a solid. If it does, then as soon as the DMT acetate freebases, it will re-salt with whatever acid is present.

holy crap it worked....i had some freebase jimjam lying around..so i put about 100mg in some vinegar...and then evaporated the vinegar...left it on the heat until i couldnt smell acetic acid anymore...and then took it off the heat...and let it sit overnight...when i looked at it this morning i see freebase dmt crystals spreading across the glass


and yea there are a few particles of dust there...

All these things are really groundbreaking job, well done q21q21!

This method of freebasing acetates is really promising. Do you guys have any information about:

a) ideal temperature to heat the acetates
b) ideal time of heating to convert to freebases
c) potential yield losses (?) in case some of the freebases also evaporate.

Spork, how much of your freebase jimjam->turned to acetate->(re)freebased via heat did you recover? Was it 100mg just as the starting material?

Or more (= some acetates still unfreebased)?
Or less (=some freebases evaporated)?


And 69ron is right, it is not going to work with a straight MHRB decoction dried down since dmt will form of salts with any other non-volatile acids (like tannic or whatever)

well im going to see if it crystallizes any further and then ill try to recover the freebase with acetone

also i didnt measure how much i actually put in the vinegar...but im pretty sure it was just around 100mg maybe 150mg...ill see...also it took a bit of time..maybe an hour for the acetic acid smell to go away..i had my glass plate over a coffee cup warmer on top of a jar lid to keep it off the surface(which was like 300F) but the temperature of the glass and dmt was hovering just around 193F(IR therms are awesome)

anyway it looks like the majority of it was freebased..later today ill collect it and measure to see what i get

im really excited about this...AWESOME job q21q21!

SWIM just tested the stability of freebase:

A bit (25mg or so) of freebase DMT put on a glass surface over a boiling pot.
Pot was put on max, the water was rapidly boiling for 25 minutes (MAX on stove)
Clearly the freebase melted, but there was no visual loss of product at all.

SWIM has tried the same with jungle with the same results.

1: Ideal temp is 100C, SWIM guesses
2: Takes 5-10 minutes after the vinegar has evaporated. Though the nose knows.
3: No visual loss of yield.

This is a great way to quickly obtain a smokable product with very common household substances. While SWIM has an easy time converting fumarates to freebase, acetates seem a bit trickier with his methods, so this is a wonderful alternative. This would be ideal for coupling with Spiceman's cooking oil extraction (would really be a great starting point for those new to extraction so that they don't feel compelled to buy toxics). SWIM can't foresee himself using this method, since he's not fond of evaping vinegar, but it's great to see that it works. SWIM hopes to see these simpler nontoxic methods catch on with the newer members.



No need, necessarily. Try manual crystallization, unless you're planning on making changa or something.

yea i just want to pull with acetone to make sure that it all freebased is all...this is just a test to make ABSOLUTELY sure it IS freebased(i want to see it with my own eyes)

^Ah, of course. SWIM's a bit hasty in his presumption that it is already freebase.

So how about dmt acetate also being soluble in acetone as well? wouldn't that produce a false positive?

Maybe try this with DCM if it is available or freezing acetone to minimise any dmt acetate solubility?

ill try freezing acetone as i have no dcm...what about ISO?


EDIT: so i just scraped up the crystals as best as i could...they remained solid and i weighed them and they came out to 93mg!! i imagine there are a few more mg's stuck to the glass i was unable to scrape up...so it seems that it was completely successful with NO loss!!

as far as i know dmt acetate isnt solid either..so...now i just need to find a solvent that dmt acetate is NOT soluble in and test it

i suppose i could try cold water wash

i just had another idea...what if you did an egg white tannin removal on the acetate tea..to remove the tannins? could you then evaporate and heat for freebase dmt?

Finally someone confirms the much higher boiling point of freebase than is often stated!

Good work Q, I'll try this in my next extraction instead of the final basification/aceton extraction. Instead of FASW I'll use vinegar to pull from the limo and try your process. Thanks!

Boiling points are often double the melting point, so I'm not surprised to find that DMT doesn't really boil at 80 C. I would suspect that 120 C would be needed. The actual melting point according to Aldrich (a company that sold DMT) was 58-67 C. There numbers are probably correct, and the others are probably in error. That would put the boiling point at about 120 C not 80 C.

Interesting idea! I guess it would contain more contaminants but it's worth a try.
Adding calcium ions may help to pull out the tannins (a pinch of lime will dissolve in vinegar and form calcium acetate). It's why making tea with hard water forms precipitates.
I also noticed that using lime instead of lye results in cleaner pure white crystals.

Nice crystals!