![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=8715) DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1045 Joined: 12-Mar-2010 Last visit: 11-Jun-2024 Location: Urf
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I know I certainly shouldn't drink both together, but what if I am drinking small amounts of coffee in the morning and early afternoon, and then throwing a few Rue seeds into my food in the evening? Am I treading dangerous waters? What's the worst that could happen? Has anyone here had bad interactions from drinking coffee and taking harmalas in the same day? FWIW, I have always been super sensitive to caffeine, so I am drinking no more than 1/3cup (American) at a time. From the unspoken Grows the once broken
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=44006) DMT-Nexus member
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Posts: 3090 Joined: 09-Jul-2016 Last visit: 03-Feb-2024
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I have drunk very strong green tea with a high caffeine content when i was still experiencing the effects of rue more than once, and never had any negative interaction at all.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1114 Joined: 13-Jul-2014 Last visit: 06-Feb-2024
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No negative interactions as far as i know/have experienced. I've regularly consumed Coffee/Caffeine while also taking Harmalas. The only thing i can see to watch out for would simply be Caffeine dosage, because Harmalas inhibit CYP1A2 and can require Caffeine dosage to be lowered by half down to a quarter if consumed alongside the Harmalas' active CYP1A2 inhibition, which is most noticeable either when you first take the Harmalas or about 6 to 8 to 10 hours into the Harmalas, so if you take Caffeine at the same time as Harmalas, or say 6 to 8 to 10 hours into the Harmalas, Caffeine will likely be potentiated if you catch the CYP1A2 inhibition right, and so dosage will need to be reduced. Same thing applies to any CYP1A2 or CYP2D6 substrate though. Other than that, no problemo.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 181 Joined: 03-Oct-2015 Last visit: 05-Sep-2024
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I've been taking caapi tea at around 300 mg harmalas for a few months now with an espresso a few times a day and have not had negative effects. The coffee is amplified but have like the effects. The caffeine rush is extended and a nice happy mental state has always been the case. I also tried a 'HIGH' dose of over a gram harmalas from caapi tea dose with my espresso and no noticeable negative effects. The high was pretty interesting but not 'worth' it just pure harmala high.
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=59893) DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 373 Joined: 22-Dec-2019 Last visit: 09-Feb-2024
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It seems like we are all a bit different ![Smile](/forum/images/emoticons/smile.png) I've written about one of my experiences of coffee and Rue here . Also some others writing about is in that thread.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 88 Joined: 31-Aug-2023 Last visit: 28-Apr-2024 Location: Spaceship Earth
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I have had mild discomfort with drinking cacao/coffee the morning after using harmala - (2.5g brewed tea) or consuming the harmala in the evening after having coffee in the morning. stomach discomfort and a mil dheadache.
I think I cam quite sensitive to the harmalas tho. I don't think it's dangerous, at least in lower doses, and I also thing there will be variances from one person to the next.
I would start with a very low dose and pay attention to your body's reaction.
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=44543) DMT-Nexus member
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Posts: 4160 Joined: 01-Oct-2016 Last visit: 08-Jun-2024
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I don't drink coffee, but I have taken a 200mg caffeine tablet before drinking 3-4g of rue. I've never had any bad interactions though the caffeine is noticeably more intense. One love What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves. Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims DMT always has something new to show you ![Twisted Evil](/forum/images/emoticons/devil.png) Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea... All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=44006) DMT-Nexus member
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Posts: 3090 Joined: 09-Jul-2016 Last visit: 03-Feb-2024
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Coffee contains small quantities of beta carbolines as well. Harman and norharman.
And also a substance called chlorogenic acid that speeds up metabolism and is therefore used sometimes by people who want to lose weight.
And then it contains some tyramine as well. On top of that there are some tyramine related compounds in coffee that, like tyramine, can trigger migraine in people who're sensitive to these substances.
So maybe it wasn't just the caffeine that contributed to those unpleasant experiences.
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=59893) DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 373 Joined: 22-Dec-2019 Last visit: 09-Feb-2024
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Yes, coffee is a potent brew. With the ongoing climate changes and pests on coffee worldwide its not hard to guess that coffee will be a luxury in the future, as it once were. Wonder it here is something similar in effects and qualities. Well tea in some ways (Pu'er tea perhaps?) or mushroom brews (Chaga is my bet). Actually dark roasted rue seeds are in the same neighborhood as coffee taste vise. But that is not compared to a good cup of coffee ![Smile](/forum/images/emoticons/smile.png) But back to the original question. I've had a big cup of coffee 6-8h before strong Rue 'tea' many times without any issues.
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=8715) DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1045 Joined: 12-Mar-2010 Last visit: 11-Jun-2024 Location: Urf
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Thanks everyone for your input! Well, recently I drunk coffee the morning after some rue, and later that day I ended up with a SPLITTING headache and a fever. But, it turned out to be Covid-19, hah! So, the jury is still out for ME (I know very well everyone is different and I'm weirdly sensitive to some things), but it is encouraging to hear your experiences. From the unspoken Grows the once broken
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=70435) DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 58 Joined: 05-May-2023 Last visit: 12-Jul-2024 Location: Belgium
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I have also had low to mid doses of syrian rue only a couple of hours after drinking coffee without any noticeable issues. “Joy at the smallest things comes to you only when you have accepted death. But if you look out greedily for all that you could still live, then nothing is great enough for your pleasure, and the smallest things that continue to surround you are no longer a joy” -C.G. Jung
"When in the body of a donkey, enjoy the taste of grass." -Tibetan Buddhist saying
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=7451) DMT-Nexus member
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Posts: 856 Joined: 15-Nov-2009 Last visit: 17-Feb-2024
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Rue sensitizes me to energies in general but most significantly to the effects of plants. Coffee is just too harsh for me; it does not feel healthy for me. The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.
~ Pablo Amaringo
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=4685) Boundary condition
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Sometimes I've observed the apparent effect that a rue dose will "re-awaken" a previous dose of caffeine/coffee. If you've had an ongoing caffeinated beverage habit there will be a background level of caffeine that persists between doses. Some of this will be bound up at various essential inactive sites, including metabolic enzymes. So, one hypothesis - which I may have mentioned somewhere before - is that harmala alkaloids, sharing some metabolic pathways with caffeine, could increase plasma caffeine concentration via this (displacement) route. This may then result in some combination of central and cardiovascular stimulation. Again , just something I've observed in my own physiology with subsequent contemplation, ymmv and I could be a poor deluded fool. Green tea can have a strong cardiovascular effect hours down the line upon addition of harmalas, too. [Green tea polyphenols are of course well-known as metabolic modulators.] “There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work." ― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
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![](/forum/resource.ashx?u=21210) DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4031 Joined: 28-Jun-2012 Last visit: 05-Mar-2024
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I cannot combine it, but I am no regular coffee drinker if that ever matters. Keeping coffee away 2 to 3 hours before and after harmalas then it's less an issue if any. Taking it together is not a nice ride for me. A friend has same conclusions. But I read it's not universally so.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1114 Joined: 13-Jul-2014 Last visit: 06-Feb-2024
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Yeah waiting 2 to 3 hours before or after Harmalas to take Caffeine let's you miss the CYP1A2 inhibition and thus potentiation of Caffeine, so that a normal dosage gets absorbed rather than taking it when CYP1A2 is inhibited which would make even a few sips of a Caffeinated soda feel nearly equal to a few cups or so of strong Coffee. Harmalas potentiate CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 substrates pretty strongly, so Caffeine on top of CYP1A2 inhibition is definitely not to be taken lightly as it can be easy to overdo it on the Caffeine, so i would highly recommend people to cut their Caffeine dosage in half, possibly down to a quarter, of what they'd usually consume if taking it alongside Harmalas (either at the same time as the Harmalas for the first wave of CYP1A2 inhibition, or 4 to 6 to 8 to 10 hours into Harmalas, depending on Harmala dosage, when the second phase of CYP1A2 inhibition starts).
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