This is my subjective experience with this plant in relation to where I find myself in my journey. All biologies, psyches, emotional-bodies, trauma/karmas vary therefore we should all take caution in the consumption of these medicines. I decided to start super low as in life of late I've found less to be more. I'm curious about how I've read some people report daily dosing without any detrimental impacts whereas others report a sort of a mao-i ''withdrawal'' period. I am compelled deeply by the plants healing potentials from depression to diabetes to cancer to fungal infections to parasites to you name it. I am more drawn to understanding pharmacology than ever before as a result of this medicine 'finding me' at a very needed time in life. I find it fascinating that this plant is a 'noxious weed' in several states in the USA causing some states to engage in 'warfare' against it. By warfare I might be exaggerating however for a 'State' to be so vehemently interested in eradicating a plant from existence I can't help but to find myself repulsed. Furthermore, seeing as how the SSRI ''epidemic'' is wreaking so much if we can agree havoc on peoples health one could make the case that the prolifacy of a plant like this could be Nature's perfect response to people's needs manifest as... Syrian Rue.

Pardon the wordy introduction to my brief report. I guess I'm in the mood to write.

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The capacities of Syrian Rue can offer the exact medicine one needs in order to move through what either consciously or unconsciously might be blocking one’s full expresion.



I began with 30mg the first day. 100mg the second. 300mg the third. The first and second days I noted an immediate change in the conditions which were ‘’plaguing’’ me where on the third I experienced a break-through surrounding the root cause of what has been ailing me.



In my meditation I was shown invaluable alternate angles from which to view myself and others through. The emotional piece being tantamount to the healing process though obviously the spirit-mind is equally paramount. Enthegon has always been a word of deep resonance as it speaks precisely to the experience one can have through appropriate rapport with said plant medicines. 



My diet has corrected itself seemingly automatically. It’s as if the medicine can act as a removal of obstacles or as an agent of change. My dreams became ignited and meaningful. My capacities in interactions with loved ones became more ‘’online’’. I felt a lot more present and able to receive and give love. Hallelujah.



I will continue working with this holy sacrament definitely or until guidance suggests otherwise. It is my view that Nature deserves much praise for its relentless love it shineth forth in its myriad forms Syrian Rue being one of them!

I would also like to express my understanding of a micro-dose, a threshold dose, and a macro dose. As an anecdote in the past whilst working with mushroom microdosing in the realm of 40mg 2x per day, I would find myself naturally inclined to move from micro to macro a couple of weeks in which provided a result highly beneficial. But anyways, a micro-dose to me is lesser than a threshold dose. A threshold dose makes me impacted in a more than subtle fashion. A macro dose obviously being pushing it to the maximal limit of what you can humanly absorb into your pitiful puny beingness in relation to what you know is about to hit you

Just to clarify, were these doses of extracted alkaloids, or the plain seeds? Given your description of the effects, my expectation would be more the former.

Welcome aboard, fellow rue-and-shrooms fan

Oopsie: I failed to clarify. Raw whole seeds chewed and swallowed.

Have you worked with extractions? I'm floored by the UV lights effect. A friend shared with me he and others experienced a pink vibration whilst enjoying the sacred wine (Syrian rue). A friend was given a "heroic" dose in Africa by natives: he reported it was akin to iboga. The dose was likely in the 10-20 gram range. Fortunately he was held by caring humans. The nightmares people experience with these things are so easily avoided through respwct.

Thanks for the welcome!

Some report medicines find you at the right time which is the opposite of what one might normally figure. In one's darkest time of Karmic return, of underworldly transgression, what greater gift imaginable than the luck of a plant ally making its way into your pharmacopeia.

The lore surrdoung Rue is interesting no doubt. Some of the other members posts on Rue have been highly beneficial in my ongoing study. The spirit of this plant is special, no doubt: as too are they all in their own rights. Mckennas stance on those tryptamimes which are all endogenous or mostly is a right approach in my sense. The linguistic inter relationships between the molecules and our brains is a form of magic that most will never experience (tragic - until death?).

A helping hand after a great fall. An old friend to assist in recovery. A gentle potent facilitator of change. Looking forward to greater depth in rapport with this spirit-plant.

I feel like this response to my thread is worthy of a thread of its own however for now I'll get it down here.

The effect of raw Syrian rue seeds on the gastrointestinal system

It doesn't take a genius to discover that the bitterness of the seeds surely equates to it being a potent anti parasitic. We know that many if not all diss eases originate in the gut including things like depression and other sever neurodegenerative diss eases. You are what you eat, garbage in garbage out. We are assaulted in apparently every angle under the sun from toxins. Some are subject to Similac at birth, a slew of questionable vaccines, begin heavy refined sugar as soon as it can be chewed, receive antibiotics and all sorts of other fun surprises (Not!). The position one might find oneself in in regards to ones gut health is varied: some have worked for years on ridding themselves of parasites through whatever means necessary including dry fasts which proport to starve parasites thus resulting in their excretion whereas many more have done nothing at all.

It is a long winded introduction to state that upon morning 5 of my impromptu "diet" of whole Syrian rue seeds chewed/swallowed 2-3x per day in the dosages of now 1000-3000mg I've noted my body is purging much of what shouldn't be inside of it from its organs. I ceased from almost all "bad" habits on the drop of a dime though obviously it was through the introduction of this specific medicine.

I'm very curious as to others experiences with long term "dieting" of this plant (1 week on 1 week off, or 40 days on, etc) and the effects it had on your mind body spirit. I'd also be curious as to the initial status of things such as gut health. Some people have very healthy BMs whereas others might not due to usually dietary intake, volume, level of hydration etc.

That was very detailed, but some statements are a bit glorified...

Syrian rue has it's uses for sure.

Can it help? Yes
Is it healthy? Depends
Does it feel good? Sometimes
Should you rely on it as a cure-all? No

The human body has MAO for a reason, throw it out of balance with regular use and you might be more prone to health issues in the long run.

Several foods and beverages do have MAOIs in them, the difference it is in what we consider a "microdose".

Even at that point it can make some people "happier", on the downside it does potentially change how some (conventional) medication or drugs get metabolized.

It seems like you wanted to do Lifestyle changes anyways, and syrian rue might have given you a push to the right path, but at the end of the day it was you that changed the habits, not the plant.

Conclusion...

Be careful, as with any drug, natural or not there are side effects, risks of dependence, and harm to the health.

I wanted to post another update in my ongoing connection to the spirit of this plant.

I was deeply humbled by the final session prior to taking some time off. As many know, our biologies are so unique as are where we find ourselves in our journeys. I am reminded of Mckennas insight surrounding that these special/unique plants are carriers for a Spirit. They each have unique Spirits offering different teachings and styles of teaching. As others have stated in threads here this one can have the quality of being non forceful, gentle, and even neutral. I've worked with San Pedro, peyote, aya, mushrooms, and Cannabis at this point. I've had deep connections to these plants as well appreciating what they had to share with me. For whatever reason Syrian Rue has been something very special in relation to those. It has (and will continue to) offer me a platform upon which to deepen into my self healing work of integrating trauma, changing poor habits, taking life more seriously, taking family/friends more seriously, breathing better, to name a few. The quality of love this spirit has for those whom it touches is indeed priceless.

It is also worth noting that the burning of frankincense along with the seeds is an other worldly combo. The psychoactive properties of the sacred frankincense can be potentiated through the rue offering a unique opportunity. The lore and healing qualities of frankinscene and its constituents are compelling. The literature available surrounding indigenous use of Rue in combination with other plants is fascinating. Pomegranate is apparently quite interesting.

I may end up trying the sprouting method as a poster here shared the sprouting of the seeds can offer unique subtle changes in the experience.

Here is an interesting anecdotal testimony from a great article (and website) dedicated to Syrian Rue.

Syrian Rue by itself is rarely credited for any great personal breakthroughs. In one exception, daily use of only Syrian rue after some months of reprise from other unhealthy habits had one person claiming something of a personal transformation giving credit to Syrian Rue alone. Regarding your diet, rue will right you. Foods with yeast extract preservatives or MSG cause nausea or digest poorly when mixed with Syrian Rue, so does beer and wine. http://SyrianRue.org/Diet explains more dietary interaction details. At popular information sources I see published that Syrian causes hallucinations which is very misleading. At 2-5g, with no other special entheogenic plants combined, Syrian Rue will not cause any visions. More than that amount is intolerable to most people nauseating even those with the best diets. Somewhere dose crosses the line to overdose. People who want the health benefits don’t want to “hallucinate”. Syrian Rue does not cause hallucinations and popular information sources should be corrected by new FDA management dedicated to the truth.

Diet and exercise are key to health and happiness – the ancient axiom remains. Rue encourages healthy diet. It helps you retain your serotonin or happiness which is the ultimate molecule that we all pursue in one way or another.

https://syrianrue.org/Soma/

Hello livinglight48, it's great to encounter another person who has a special connection to this divine plant. I have been in an intimate relationship with a specific strain I harvest every year from the same place for almost 15 years. İt seems there is a gap between people who form a connection with rue (or the vine) and people who are only into tryptamine effects. Tryptamines are classic psychedelics, they have forceful effects on everybody, but rue by itself requires a special sensitivity and connection to plant spirits to appreciate and form a relationship with. As you know, I am the "poster" mentioning sprouting the seeds. İf you have a special connection to the plant already, it is highly likely that you will appreciate the sprouts...

Greetings dithyramb, likewise my friend. I have appreciated your posts on Rue on this board. Such a gift to to have her as an ally, isn't it? Indeed, such is a seeming 'split' in our humanly relations to these plants and their constituents. To each their own in the end. I have noted that the Spirit of whatever plant one might be working with isn't 'guaranteed' to show-up. This is a profound point of consideration in my ongoing contemplation of what these plants are for themselves in exclusion of us human beings. All of these plant-spirits are of One Divine Origin, this I am considering.

I know a man with a lot history with this work who found a large Rue dose administered ceremonially in Africa to have felt akin to iboga. I did light looking into the potential similarities of Rue & iboga however aside from them both being tryptamines didn't find much.

See you around, take care. By the way, I found this message to be beautiful: https://youtu.be/Agx8Gi97i4I?si=fONmqTCHTzXOfuxV

Livinglight108, I also engage with plants in a spiritual context, however since joining the nexus I have found focussing on materially oriented scientific aspects is more resonant with this place, and thus my discourse style has changed a lot, at least as it appears here. This did have positive sides to it, like getting more proficient in the material-analytic dimension. Besides, if left unchecked a plain spiritual focus tends to bring with it its own set of illusions. it's a very deep and complex world. I strive to find a balance between the extremes of getting lost in the vagueness of the depth and the superficiality of the surface material specifics.

But ultimately, unmistakably, I am a plant spirit guy. I get to know and ally the local plants of my land that call to me, this is my work. Rue is my number one ally and has been part of the world of my ancestors, in religious contexts. I was not aware of this before it called to me and I started working with it.

I too have had plenty of experiences with Ayahuasca, San Pedro, and mushrooms. I actually started this work and had my first ever psychedelic experiences with a call to a sacred healing craft of the local land, started with rue alone, then a year later tried it with mimosa. Later I got influenced by friends to try these other, non-local sacred medicines. I have turned 100% local since a few years, as İ found being faithful to rue and getting the help of other local plants when necessary is more wholesome and aligned for me in my journey . Before this journey I had never had any other experiences with any drugs/psychoactives, including MJ and tobacco, and I rarely enjoyed the alcohol I drank in social settings. This has not changed.

Regarding iboga, and iboga's similarity to rue... High dose rue by itself always reminds me of iboga. Probably the structural similarity between ibogaine and harmaline plays a role in this... (Claudio Naranjo has a study specifically on this similarity). Even though I have never experienced iboga, a lot of the mentioned differences between Ayahuasca and iboga İ find apply to the difference between Ayahuasca and rue. Rue definitely is experienced more as a stern inner voice of truth, and feels connective to one's own soul. Connection to the essence of self, and essence of all family/loved ones. This is what rue is about. A pure, divinely alligned, unified existence...

Take care, blessings.

Hello ! Rue lover here I drink rue tea 1-3 times per week for almost 2years, usually at 4,5-5g dose (quite strong) but I did up to 10g (and puked ). Really love this plant. When I started to drink rue teas it was for its MAOI properties, to enhance DMT experiences, but over time I really took a liking to peganum harmala, for itself and its subtle effects.


My feeling is that my health is very nice since I take rue tea and my intestinal transit has clearly improved. I feel very clean inside. I also like the way peganum harmala helps to clear thoughts. When i'm on rue tea, thoughts are truly clear, free of parasitic thoughts. It helps go deep. Syrian rue also taught me how to take more care of myself. It lead me to change my relationship with booze for example. From almost daily excessive consumption I now drink only one or 2 glasses of beer per month (I used to drink ways more in just one day).


I've read this link about the dietary when I started to take peganum harmala. In my experience (and that of many other people here), there is no real concern with food interaction. The warning regarding tyramine comes from dietary contraindications with irreversible and non-selective pharmaceutical MAOIs, which harmalas are not. They are reversible and selective MAO-A inhibitors. It's unlikely that tyramine levels can build up on reversible MAOIs, especially if we consider that tyramine continues to be metabolized by MAO-B, which is not (or barely at high doses) inhibited by harmalas. The only thing I do as a diet is to wait 2 hours after my latest meal to take the rue tea, because it slows down the digestion. I eat anything I want but in reasonable amounts. Most of the time I tend to eat light/digestible stuff though.
The main concern with harmalas is not food interaction, it is when combined with some drugs or medications such as mdma, amphetamines, anti-depressant, tramadol, etc., in general all stuff that releases serotonin or increases its concentration in the synapses. It may lead to serotonin syndrom.
About hallucinations, don't expect something tryptamine-like. At high dose (5g+) I experienced visual hallucinations - rather distortions we will say - they were mostly "tracers", very beautiful when you are in move. I also experience auditive hallucinations, music often sounds faster than usual and I also experience sound localization distortion, especially when i'm outdoor, distant sounds can seem very close - and vice versa. In general, the perception and feeling of music is improved. Listening to some music on peganum harmala is a very sweet experience.
However, What I like the most with rue tea is maybe the dreamy/hypnagogic states it can induce, you can really travel in your mind and thoughts and have very nice visions - not like tryptamine CEV's, more like dreams scenes.
You mentionned nausea : it may be a thing when you start with rue and/or take rue in high doses but the more you get used to it, the less nausea there is. Taking some ginger or few lemon EO drops before the rue may help with nausea.

Cheerz - tonight is rue tea night

Cheers, Sofa Traveler! 😉 I will write more tomorrow.

A lot to chew on here, thanks! I will respond later or tomorrow.

An aside: has anyone encouraged a loved one to work with the Rue that might have little to no experience as a psychonaut?

As an aide for depression and general cure-all I would figure offering pre-capsuled 250 or 500mg powdered seeds with instructions on dosage. With the capsules I feel a 'novice' could easily begin working with the plant. Scaling up would be easy if desired and the bitterness wouldn't have to be experienced in the mouth. I'd have to imagine a combo like Rue+Cubensis+Lions Mane to have potentially wonderful impact over a disciplined regimented intake. I would guess something like 230mg rue 20mg Cubensis 250mg lions mane.

I've also experienced that ability to produce hypnagogic states with rue. I realy liked it, but the dose it requires for me to get those effects does come with a very intense body load. Lying down is basically the only thing i can do at such doses. Not something i could do on a daily basis, considering the duration of those effects as well.

Starting from your last paragraph upward: "The behavioral effects induced by ibogaine are indistinguishable from effects produced by two related indole alkaloids, harmaline and ibogaine" From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...articles/PMC6573067/#B58 I similarly have yet to experience ibogaine though have been drawn to it for several years. Fascinatingly as a result of synchronicity in life, a long-ish time virtual friend has been connecting with me who is currently deeply immersed into ibogaine. I can agree with your assessment here: pure divinely aligned unified existence. However that doesn't mean it's always going to be easy as I encountered profoundly last night.

I appreciate your desire to learn more about molecules and pharmacology as opposed to just being a plant spirit guy. I share this: pharmacology is mountainously interesting. It has been said that you don't find the medicine, the medicine finds you. Anecdotally the way in which Rue came to me was during a time of extreme challenge. A friend began relentlessly contacting me out of the blue which I initially resisted. I even came to the analogy of that when all that one knows is darkness light can be (initially) repulsive. Fortunately, I overcame my fear and received his sudden advice of beginning relation with this special plant.

I might as well share what I wrote this morning in lieu of the experience I had last night. I feel as if my desire to attempt to place words upon my ongoing experience(s) is two fold: a) Perhaps they might help someone else and b) Perhaps I might be helped by others with more wisdom than myself.

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After meditating with Syrian Rue a handful of times with glowing results, I found myself a lot deeper into the medicine though not necessarily as a result of increasing my dose.


My maximal dose on any occasion never exceed 5-7 grams. My meditations were at night in quiet darkness. I consumed the seeds raw by chewing and swallowing.


I am in a place in life of great struggle in changing bad patterns primarily pertaining to addiction to substances. Sugar, caffeine, kratom, and food. What is ultimately the case is having to deal with the underlying trauma/pain which has been the ongoing cause of the self-harming behaviors.


The first few experiences with Syrian Rue were almost entirely glowing wherein I felt as if I was re united with a long lost Angel of Love. She reached in to my heart through time and space to help me feel and to feel. She wasn't forceful but instead more neutral. I was catapulted in waves of profound catharsis wherein I felt like an absolute baby crying rivers of tears along with intermittent full body convulsions. Admittedly, I find myself indulging in these states of catharsis as it feels "more real" than most other things in life. Whenever my mind wanders into questioning "why" in these deepest states of connection to the more profound pain imaginable I am met with an instantaneous response of ceasing mental pondering on the matter. The answer must then not be in mind but instead in the heart. I understand this subjective experience will sound crazy to many though I know others can likely relate on some level.


I have had a couple of deep meditative states of calm come over me wherein I was encouraged to go deeper into peace/relaxation. I am hyper aware at my minds inability to concentrate. I see clearly how easily I am taken out of the present moment. This is a good Segway into the more unpleasant qualities I've experienced thus far.


Having experienced 23 years of various plants and drugs I am no stranger to finding myself in deep psychological waters of oceanic challenge. My recreational usage of psychedelics/empathogens ceased at age 25 as a result of a suicide attempt which ultimately was a saving grace in my life though that's another story. I began working with psychedelics in a more conscious format initially alone later ceremonially with mixed results.


In two of the experiences I endured prior to last nights, I experienced tinges of what felt akin to psychic attack or negativity psychologically which is the opposite of fun. I could feel a presence of evil, of something legitimately malevolent. In the experience I had last night the rubber hit the road in a dark light where I was more deeply in rapport with a very uncomfortable aspect of what is in the end almost certainly my own self. Is it my past wrong doings in this life and or the last which persist in some form? Is it that I am a subject to a form of psychic vampirism by parasitic negative entities? I truly do not know and I realize talks on these matters is a sure route to the looney bin. However nonetheless I know I'm not the first nor last human to report on such peculiarities. Some of these attacks were centered around playing upon my core most fears often around death or loss of freedom. In some cases I'd be poked at in a way mentally where it literally felt as if a refined negative psychology was "battling" my mind field.


I found Love, laughter, and deep breathing to help. I found myself dumbfounded at the immensity of the situation. I contemplated the absurdity, the terror, and the uncertainty. I realize it's a combination of many things not in exclusion of the overall predicament we as an entire mankind find ourselves. The notion of evil prevailing over light is a real doozy for those unfortunates who carry such a fear (or realization). Sometimes I find myself considering that everything I'm doing is wrong. I consider that I should be fighting against the wrong being conducted in our world by psychopaths. I can't help but to feel a failure to myself and others.


I experienced reviews of traumatic experiences in this life and some others that I couldn't quite comprehend. These experiences were dream like though some visuals were experienced with open eyes. These experiences were akin to being played on a movie reel at a quality of speed greater than usual. I had listened to some ibogaine ceremonial African music earlier in with moderate length which definitely influenced my experience. I would suddenly be "recreating" the intense strumming of whatever instrument this man was playing, it was very clear, loud, and in my field. Along with the intensity of the music came the intensity of the experience of things occurring before me. Some of them were exceedingly uncomfortable. Yet there was also a sense of joy, beauty, and love. My breath became much deeper at times going up into my crown. My heart at times felt so much love, warmth, and connection. I had an experience wherein I felt a being attempting to protect me and to help me through.

Pardon the abrupt ending. I deduce that the unfolding will continue through my will to heal, change, understand, and to align with the divine. Thanks for reading.

How neat that you developed a specific love for Rue alone after initially using it along-side other plants. I continue to find myself floored at its capacities. I do not foresee myself mixing it with anything else anytime soon.

Thank you for your reflection on how it has helped you dieterailly. Since day #1 for me my diet has changed exponentially though I still have a ways to go in this regard. One cannot abuse oneself for decades and expect to feel better over-night. That is interesting that you find it helps you be free of all parasitic though as it contrasts the experience I just commented about! I suppose the plants can act as mirrors therefore what I experienced is exactly what I needed to experience in relation to where I find myself.

I'm not sure what to think about dietary concerns however so far I haven't had any adversities though all I've really mixed was some rank cheeses. I don't drink so that's no concern. I will say I've read twice now that Rue is a ''jealous'' plant. I'm not sure what to make of this honestly however I've heard the same about Aya. I can say that I do get the sense that there may be some chilling validity to this. How does on come to a Queen: With their pipes clogged/toxic/convoluted/varied or clear/pure/simple/focused. It's an analogy I once heard that has always stuck with me.

The reversibility of the MAO-Is is compelling and will require a more serious time of research. I appreciate your understanding of the pharmacological effects of Rue constituents.

I can relate after my latest experience about the ''hallucinations'' being more ''dream-like''. With that said, they still felt very real though absolutely nothing like anything I've experienced with other psychedelic tryptamines. It causes me to reflect upon a potential quality of Syrian Rue (& Datura) as being an "Oneirogen":

An oneirogen, from the Greek ὄνειρος óneiros meaning "dream" and gen "to create", is a substance or other stimulus which produces or enhances dreamlike states ...


Hope you enjoyed!

So I don't use Syrian rue due to not being available cheaply here in Brasil but caapi is pretty cheap and plentiful. I've been taking a daily shot of tea around 150-300mg daily for a month now but even lower dose daily for past 2-3 months. I started taking lower dose as a anti parasitic which is a common use in some amazon regions due to the water supply. There are medications which are pretty common here but choose to go the tea route.

Overall I love the lower dose effects but have recently tried 1g harmala dose which did have very noticeable effects particularly a humming throughout the entire experience.

Thread was a great read.