Has anyone here tried using Methylene Blue as a MAO inhibitor?

Yes, it works. I had my first ever trip this way the day before yesterday. Definitely still figuring things out but here's what I did, what happened, and what I'm doing differently next time.

For reference I'm male, roughly 80kg. I dissolved 1200mg methylene blue (MB) in ≈150mL water, warmed to near boiling (not necessary) in the microwave and added a bag of blackberry tea in an attempt to mask the taste, which I had read was unpleasant. That part didn't work at all LOL. I could smell the blackberry tea but the flavor of the MB completely overpowered it. It was bitter, spicy kind of like a pepper, and stung the back of my throat. Taken separately, I'd say the MB was significantly worse than the M. Tenuiflora brew; however, the taste of the MB had already made me nauseous at that point. I still have a slight aftertaste even as I'm writing this over 48 hours later, though it could be coming from the inside of my tongue rather than the outside. MB is thought to alter taste even when administered intravenously.

MB has a very potent blue color. It stained my lips, tongue, gums, teeth, coffee mug... spoon that was used to stir it, etc. It also made my urine a vibrant blue, so much so that it was nearly black until it mixed with the water in the toilet bowl. This has subsided to a light green as of ≈15 minutes ago LOL.

Fun story: As I was coming down, the only toilet I had available was a public restroom, and I had explosive blue diarrhea because of the ayahuasca. I tried my best to clean up the mess I made, but it actually stained the porcelain itself blue! (I snuck in with a bottle of chlorine bleach later, added ≈1cup, and it was as good as new by the next morning). Anyway, as I was washing my hands an older gentlemen walked in and did a double take at my lips, which were still dark blue at this point. Then he walked into the toilet stall and saw what I did to the toilet. Then he looked at my lips again. Then back at the toilet. Then back at my lips. ಠ_ಠ I wanted to explain so badly... but realized that telling him I was on ayahuasca would give him the wrong idea. And it would turn the situation into a story that he tells his whole family every Thanksgiving - did you know psychedelics make you eat your own poop? Those folks are nuts!

Lesson learned #1 - next time I'm using a straw to drink the MB portion, if I don't find a better solution entirely. That way I don't have to wait for the skin on my lips to peel off before looking normal again. Also, adding the tea was a waste of perfectly good tea, so next time I'll minimize the amount of water and skip the unnecessary heating step.

For the DMT portion I mixed 10g finely ground M. Tenuiflora inner root powder, 2g L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C), and ≈150mL water. I used a microwave to warm it up until it just started boiling (2:30 in my microwave). Then to prevent evaporation I covered it with a plastic lid originally from a tub of cottage cheese. Every 10 minutes for 3 hours I took it out to stir, reheated, and replaced the lid. I did the whole MB blue thing in parallel while this was going on, drinking the MB ≈35min before the M. Tenuiflora was ready. Honestly the brew wasn't that bad on its own, but because the flavor of the MB had already made me nauseous, I almost threw up. I actually had to stare at the wall and just focus on breathing in order to keep it down. Normally I have a stomach of steel; after all I need one as a college kid who regularly eats questionable things, so that one really came as a surprise.

I spent the first 20 minutes before the effects kicked in cleaning up the mess and pre-emptively going to the bathroom (thankful for that later). My urine was already light blue at that point. I had already moved my mattress to the floor and had a carefully selected playlist of songs downloaded and ready to go. 40 minutes in and I wasn't feeling anything. I was getting a little disappointed thinking some part of my super janky microwave ayahuasca set up wasn't working, or maybe the product I bought wasn't legit. But then... the texture on my ceiling tiles started gently moving in transverse waves. I felt an overwhelming rush of relief and gratitude that it was working and I think those initial feelings set me up for an awesome experience.

I put on some music and the lines in the tiles started lip-synching like little mouths. I couldn't help but join them LOL. There is one tile slightly brighter than the rest IRL that was especially active, and it seemed to glow like a little TV screen. The whole ceiling started getting overlaid with geometric patterns of orange, red, and green, which reminded me that I was supposed to have my eyes closed. I had to use my phone as a makeshift blindfold because there was no way I was gonna reach my actual blindfold. The phone startled me later on in the trip when I got a notification to the face (screen was facing down even though I specifically intended to point the screen up), but luckily I was too far gone at that point for it to change the vibe. I guess I just literally took a screenshot LOL.

Lesson learned #2 - Airplane mode. I had actually done this, but turned it off again to look up how long it was supposed to take for the effects to kick in. Comedic timing.

Anyway, the closed eye visuals looked like a series of vast rooms, moving like the interior of a clock, but in the style of sleek modern architecture. The colors were actually pretty subdued but there were lots of shades of gray that I can only describe as stylish.

Then the trip started getting philosophical. When the peak of the experience started the song was "Waiting" by Dash Berlin and Emma Hewitt. Mind you, it's a beautiful song to listen to while sober, but on ayahuasca I felt like I saw the beauty of the entire universe, how fortunate I am to be able to experience it, and that it couldn't be any other way by the nature of what it is. The song seemed to last forever. The score at the end marked the first of several "brain orgasms," which left me out of breath and physically shaking. If I find a woman who can do that she'll have herself a husband. 10/10 definitely check out the song and consider adding it to your trip playlist. The cool part is that sense of appreciation and beauty seems to have stuck with me. Listening to the song afterwards brings back that memory and still makes me beam ear to ear. Granted, its only been two days but I have a feeling its permanent.

I also had flashbacks to people who played minor but significant roles in my childhood, if that makes any sense. For example, my elementary school bus driver. I was the last kid on his route, so without anyone else on the bus I used to open up about things I otherwise wouldn't, and he would mentor me on the go. I'm almost certain he's not around anymore, but I'm planning to ask my mom if she knows. When I was a freshman in high school his health was already failing. My mom and I tried to buy groceries for him but we think he started changing his schedule to avoid that. We also suspect that he was homeless. I figure it's worth a shot to try finding him, but I don't have my hopes up. At any rate, I was incredibly lucky to have had such a beautiful and kind man in my life. Hopefully I can pay that forward someday.

I saw a lot of other people from my past too, both the good and the bad. And in that moment I couldn't do anything but wish all of them the best, no grudges, no resentment, just unconditional love. Of course, I'm not planning to reach out to all of them. A snake is still a snake, and it will bite you. But there's no use in holding that against the snake because that's just it's nature. That part of the trip was very healing.

Anyway, at some point I urgently needed to pee. I took the phone off my face and suddenly realized I had hands. They seemed very bony and insect-like and when I moved them it seemed like there were more than two. I waved them around really fast to try and turn myself into an exoskeleton octopus LOL. Didn't really achieve the effect I was going for but it was still way more fun than it should have been. Standing up was a pretty big challenge and I almost tipped over at least once in every cardinal direction, not kidding. When I got to my feet it felt like I had landed on the moon (felt like a monumental achievement). Each step was like the first I'd ever taken, and it probably would have looked that way from the outside too. I peed into empty 2L bottles which I still haven't emptied yet. Over the course of several pee seshes I actually managed to fill two of those bottles to ≈3/4 and ≈2/3 capacity (better to be safe than sorry in terms of remaining space), which seems like quite a bit after the fact. I did drink a lot of water to wash down the various icky beverages, and some during the standing portion of the trip too, but probably nowhere near 6L. I wonder if I was losing a lot of water. Despite the prolific volume, they both look jet black because of how concentrated the MB is. I think I'll attach a pic while I still have the bottles. I don't know if there's a guideline against that sort of thing but it's actually nuts. If you don't know what to expect ahead of time I could totally see that becoming a frightening experience.

Lesson learned #3 - need plenty of readily accessible pee bottles, and next time I'll take it easy on the palette cleansing water.

After I relieved myself I decided to stay on my feet and enjoy the different perspectives that standing had to offer. Danced around a little, stared into the light fixture, looked at the reflection off the TV screen, etc. I was a little apprehensive of tripping in the same room as the TV at first - worried that it might look like a dark and foreboding figure and maybe lead to a bad trip, but I distinctly remember thinking, "its not dark at all, its just a mirror," and then admiring the reflection of a 7-bladed fan in said TV. The grid cover on the fan was pretty neat too, like a geometric portal to someplace else.

I laid back down and finished the trip from there. It was basically the same as before I stood up to pee. I was able to confront my own mortality and some other things that had been on my mind. All in all, I think it was a pretty productive trip. I came to the realization that I don't necessarily need to go back; I think I got everything I needed. And around the 2½ hour mark I somewhat abruptly snapped back to reality, totally sober. I was able to stand up like nothing had happened. I slipped into some shoes, went to the bathroom down the hall (talked about that earlier), and came back feeling normal. I tried laying down and closing my eyes again but there was nothing.

From what I've read, 2½ hours is short but not unheard of for ayahuasca. I'm not sure if the duration was reduced because the MAOI was methylene blue (I certainly appeared to have eliminated a mind boggling amount of it, but trust me, there was still more where that came from LOL), or just because that's how my body reacted in this particular situation.

I'm gonna do some math later to figure out what's up. I suspect the amount of MB I had wasn't enough to inhibit all of the MAOI-A, but decreased its activity enough to allow for a pretty spectacular experience. I could be totally wrong on that though; ultimately only experimentation will tell. Deep down I'm hoping that the MB dose I took was larger than necessary LOL. For the sake of all humankind and explosive smurf diarrhea.

I hope this was somewhat interesting; I definitely still have a lot to unpack. And as I said this was my very first experience with psychedelics, or any kind of drug for that matter. I'm planning to trip again, probably against the advice of more experienced psychonauts who would tell me to quit while I'm ahead. But from what I've heard bad trips can be even better learning experiences than good trips, and I kinda want to meet some entities just to see what that's like. I don't think my ceiling tile singers or instant coffee hedgehogs really count LOL, but they were definitely cute and cuddly.

So to answer your question, yes MB works pretty well but be prepared for the side effects. Don't know if I mentioned it earlier but urination was slightly painful too. However, that went away quickly. And even though the trip was completely over by the time I went to bed, I was disoriented for a few seconds each time I woke up (twice that I can remember). It felt remarkably similar to the ayahuasca trip, so I'm not sure what's going on there. I think I may have remembered the sensation and was dreaming about it, or it could be some sort of chemical shift in the brain related to sleep. The later may have interesting implications i.e. taking a MAOI inhibitor and getting high on your own supply so to speak. I'll have to try MB without DMT in the future to see if that happens again. Any mechanism would have to explain the short duration of effects after waking, but it's not impossible I suppose.

Cheers,
Dan

Just a quick warning Methylene Blue appears to interact with very commonly prescribed SSRIs and other anti-depressant medication. You could put yourself at serious risk of serotonin syndrome.

Some links:
https://www.psychotropic...tonin-toxicity-syndrome/
https://associationofana...j.1365-2044.2009.06029.x


I'm not sure if this is talked about much but anyone who's concerned they've trigger a serotonin syndrome episode or a friend has, the firstline treatment is often periactin (cyproheptadine) at 12mg PO (a common otc antihistamine). Always handy to have on hand.
I should note I'm not a doctor. And if you think you or a friend is effected by serotonin syndrome get to a hospital immediately.

Yep, this is also true of other MAOIs including those found in traditional ayahuasca brews. If someone takes any of those medications they need to find an alternative psychedelic.

Thanks for the info, I'll have to check out the periactin, especially before tripping with other people.

Cheers,
Dan

RIMA'S like harmala in traditional ayahusca brews do not carry the same level of risk as pharmaceutical MAOIs. Although MB seems to be an RIMA it is quite potent and seems to have a number of side effects.
These drugs have variations/ different mechanisms of actions from one another.

Side note: Methyl Blue cures bilharzia and is a potent bacteria fighter. I know of a man who took drops of MB on his tongue daily and claimed it was for health. Drinking such large quantities of MB though is alot, glad it worked out okay for you OlDan

This gave me a good chuckle . Harmalas are the way to go, for the obvious reasons already mentioned. Also the stains can only be seen under ultraviolet.

Correct, MB is reversible. And I totally agree - I'd never personally use an irreversible or pharmaceutical MAOI for ayahuasca. To anyone reading, you shouldn't do it either. The pharmaceuticals are meant to be long lasting by design. It's no good if your patient has to take a pill every 4 hours.

However, any MAOI that works for ayahuasca will also prevent breakdown of serotonin, at least temporarily. If someone is on those particular medications they unfortunately need to find a different way to consume the DMT, whether smoked, intramuscular, or maybe a different chemical entirely.

Because MB is a RIMA it should be displaced by tyramine, but I've been avoiding fermented foods regardless until lunch today when I had a sandwich with some salami, cheese, and olives 😋

Cheers,
Dan

Edit: "By design" can also involve the physical structure of the pill. They're often meant to release their contents slowly, so it behaves differently than a pulse input (concentration over time looks like a long plateau instead of quickly reaching a maximum and decaying exponentially from there). I'm not privy to the specifics of any medication but that's something to look out for with pharmaceuticals. The active ingredients might still be going into your system long after you've taken it.

I recommend checking out Moclobemide, it works good as a RIMA for oral DMT activation ime, with that said though, i tend to prefer the Harmalas.

Next time this happens, calmly walk towards the person and say:"eathling, we come in peace". See what happens.

A 2.5 hour Aya trip sounds like something I'd love. I get bored easily from being ADD so the length of a movie is all I can really stand to endure anymore.

Tried again last night, but it didn't work. I'm planning to do a battery of tests this weekend to see if I can identify the point of failure. Here's what I did and what I'm planning to test.

30 minutes before taking the MB, I started taking Pepto Bismol (bismuth subsalicylate), one chewable tablet every 30 minutes. The plan was to continue the Pepto Bismol until the DMT took effect in hopes of preventing diarrhea. This time I took 225mg MB loaded in a vegetarian capsule. After 40 minutes, I drank the same M. Tenuiflora brew as last time - 10g M. Tenuiflora, 2g L-ascorbic acid, 150mL water, kept near boiling for 3 hours by relentlessly zapping it in the microwave.

For the record, the vegetarian capsule successfully prevented my mouth from turning blue, and the Pepto Bismol successfully held back the diarrhea. However, for some reason I never felt strong psychedelic effects. Just slightly more intense colors and soft distortion of a grid if I stared at it for several seconds.

Potential problems in order of perceived likelihood:
1) Slowed absorption of MB because of Pepto Bismol.
2) Slowed absorption of DMT because of Pepto Bismol.
3) Slowed absorption of MB because of vegetarian capsule.
4) 225mg MB is not enough for someone my size.

According to my updated, but still back of the envelope calculations, it shouldn't take more than 100mg MB to stop the vast majority of MAO-A activity, at least initially. I suspect the short duration of my previous trip was due to cytochrome activity not MAO. However, I'm probably returning to 1200mg just to rule out #1 first. If that works, I'll try progressively lower doses until it doesn't.

The vegetarian capsules supposedly dissolve within seconds, so it seems unlikely that it was the culprit. However, I'm going to test some capsules in lukewarm acidic water to see how long it really takes. It's probably batch specific. Some reviews online said the capsules they received were dry and crumbly, but mine don't seem to be.

Pepto Bismol works through several different mechanisms, for example slowing peristaltic contractions of the stomach, forming a thick mucus gel on the walls of the stomach, and increasing absorption of water and Na+ in the large intestine. It's known to decrease absorption of certain antibiotics, but it's surprisingly difficult to get a straight answer as to what it else it might block. Important medications? Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Food nutrients? Who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At any rate, it took over an hour for my pee to even start turning blue (emptying as often as I could to make sure it was maximally concentrated). It didn't get intensely blue until the next morning, definitely a steep departure from last time. I figure the DMT most likely got metabolized before the MB could be absorbed, or it hung out in my stomach/intestines for so long that it just never reached psychoactive concentrations. RIP. Next time I'll try taking the Pepto Bismol several hours in advance. The DMT should mostly absorb in the small intestines, so I shouldn't lose much by compressing everything that makes it to my colon into little steel balls.

Anyways, I hope some part of this was at least entertaining if not helpful. Any input much appreciated.

Changing more than one variable at once is, in retrospect, never that good of an idea, principally because it makes troubleshooting more difficult. The most glaring difference to my eyes is that last time you took 1200mg MB, which is 16/3 times what you had this time. I can imagine that the bismuth in pepto-bismol might bind to MB to some extent as well, and if MB also gets absorbed through the lining of the mouth and oesophagus, by using gelcaps you might have decreased your plasma MB concentration yet further - although we're mainly interested in inhibiting our GI MAO ofc.

Given that the SSRI serotonin syndrome warning is for MB doses of 5mg/kg and above, you may want to nudge your dose up a bit - the implication is that full MAO inhibition would be around 400mg for someone of your size.