Just wanted to give a quick update. As far as extractions go, i've put that on the backburner, for now, i'm more than fine/happy with the dark roast Rue tea. On the 21st i decided to take a small dose of Mimosa root powder in a capsule, it was 1 gram of root powder. I took the Mimosa capsule an hour after drinking my tea, as i usually do, and the Mimosa got fully orally activated. Even at a small dose like a gram of Mimosa, i could still feel some of the Adrenergic bodyload, but there wasn't any Psychedelic effect or mental change or anything. The Mimosa's effects lasted a whole 4 to 5 hours like usual with full MAO-A inhibition, it was a good bit strong for a low dose (and i could definitely tell/feel the difference between the dark roast with and without the Mimosa), and the Mimosa even made me purge, so it's a sure thing that Harmine is still in the tea and Harmaline is definitely gone.

I've been consuming this dark roast tea, at the same dosage (5 grams, usually) each night, and so far it's a very effective and clean/functional medicine. As far as extractions go, i have no idea why i couldn't get anything to precipitate out of both the basing and the manske, it's very puzzling. The dark roast is most certainly active and most certainly contains Harmine, but for some reason i just can't get it to precipitate out, so i'm sticking to tea for the time being.

A little update here - this is my standard procedure still except I've switched to using paper tea bags and brewing in a mug, super simple. I add 100mg ascorbic acid. When the roast is just right, the brew takes on a red colour instead of the usual yellow, quite surprising in fact. Adding some good honey after taking out the tea bag really improves the taste.

When the brews are more yellow, I find them more likely to cause a slight belly ache.


@starway7 - sorry for the late reply - the roasting is intended to convert or eliminate most of the harmaline. I observed that brews made with dark roasted rue seeds produce a blue fluorescence instead of the usual bright yellow-green, something which is highly suggestive of removal of harmaline to leave harmine.

Just wanted to add a little update. Still been brewing/tinkering with dark roast brews, still been taking it nightly, here's something i've learned that i had suspected. Apparently Harmine too will break down if over-roasted (dark dark roast, which is what i'd say i've mainly been using), whereas if not over-roasted, the dark roast can still contain Harmine, but over-roasted dark roast i don't think has Harmine, but does still have background compounds and MAO-A inhibition, just in a cleaner/clearer way than with Harmine in the mix, the dark dark roast (over-roast) to me feels more like Moclobemide but a bit more natural, whereas the dark roast (not over-roasted) feels more like Rue (with Harmine) but without Harmaline. So, i guess this answers my question as to why my extractions weren't working, and why i stopped feeling potentiation of my night med (Tizanidine) through CYP1A2 inhibition, because it's Harmine that inhibits CYP1A2, the background compounds don't seem to, and i had noticed here and there i'd get potentiation of my Tizanidine but other times i wouldn't and that correlated to the amount of roasting i'd do.

So yeah, if you want Harmine in the mix too, you can still do a dark roast, but i wouldn't over-roast them, let it turn a bit black for the most part but i'd say try not letting all the seeds pop, get em' roasted enough but not too roasted.

At risk of being a little repetitive across the forum tonight, I'll just mention that adding 3.5 raw rue to 14g of 3-times-previously-brewed dark roasted seeds (according to my half-and-half, full-and-part roasting recipe - detailed a couple of posts above) resulted in a really powerful experience which rather underlined the value of harmaline and, indeed, higher-dosage rue experiences for me. I'm impressed with the depth.

A few details here and here.

I can confirm that the roasting works. I just roasted and brewed ~ 7 to 10 grams of seeds. Didn't allow it to pop but upon breaking the seeds between my fingers it looks dry just like coffee beans... Feels euphoric zero nausea, less closed eye visuals but the euphoria is stronger than the raw seeds.

Now I am waiting for the 30 mins mark to drink a phalaris truncata tea 150g total. Will be sipping this gradually see where it takes me. I'll keep you posted.

Yessss it's working 😁🙏 I only just had few sips and already noticing the increasing euphoria and closed eye visuals shimmering.. you know like when you mix cold water with hit water and see that shimmering effect as the heat transfers from hot to cold...it's like that but with green and violet. Faces of loved ones I know smiling bright excited. With every sip I get a surge of energy and have to close my eyes shut tight to ride it. Its starting to feel little pushy. Need to stop sipping and give it a moment. Also keeping in mind not to drink too slowly so I don't build tolerance and not reach the full potential of the grass.

I realize now that if I drink it at once it's definitely going to hit very sudden and Intense. I can tell from trying to take bigger sips that the effects are stronger more pushy it gets me a little anxious. I'm used to mescaline slow come up and not experienced with fast come ups so it's challenging for me. Yet I feel sober and present fully conscious.

Am almost back to baseline. That was so quick. Wasn't very eventful. Nothing like my previous brew with a mixture of truncata, brachyatchys and paradoxa. Either it's the truncata just isn't as potent or I under dosed on the MAOI. Felt strong at beginning like I was in for a ride then faded.the grass tea taste was manageable but not appreciated. Still some closed eye visuals but think it's just the harmalas by now. There's a bit of body load but that's it.

Just another quick update. So i've been consuming the dark roast since October of last year, and recently like within the last few weeks, i've been reinvestigating the light roast, as well as the raw. Dark roast is good stuff, but roasting to a certain point, or rather over-roasting (past the point of good darker roast), the Harmine seems to break down as well, whereas Harmine is retained in light to medium roasts and up to a certain point with darker roasts.

So as i got back around to the light roast, i started to realize how achy the light and dark roast for that matter makes me, i'm not sure why it makes me achy, could be it's anti-microbial effects, could be some sort of chemical change due to the roasting, or could just be the lack of Harmaline, so i decided to try mixing the raw seed and the light roast. So what i did was mix approx 3.8 grams of raw Rue and 2 grams of light roast (extra Harmine+background compounds, balancing out the Harmaline in the raw), so i brewed up 19 grams of raw and 10 grams of light roast for a total of 5 doses and concentrated the brew down to 100mls per dose.

I also wanted to try out freezing/thawing the Rue tea, like i do with my Mimosa and Acacia teas, and freezing/thawing really does precipitate out the plant crud and cleans up the tea, you can filter out any plant crud, which only leaves some tannins in the tea, but it can be frozen/thawed again and then siphoned away from the tea at the bottom with the tannins, so technically i'm sacrificing a dose to get the rest as clean tea, or i just put up with the tannins in the last dose. Freezing/thawing works really well, and doesn't seem to reduce potency unlike with the egg white tannin removal tek thingy (although i've only done that with Acacia and Mimosa, i don't think i've yet attempted it with Rue, so not sure if it reduces Rue's potency too or not).

Anyways though, the combination of the raw and light roast Rue's works really well, the couple grams of light roast really helps to balance out the Harmaline and provide some extra Harmine+background compounds, so about 5 grams of Rue worth of Harmine and background compounds, but with about 3.8 grams of Rue worth of Harmaline. And the Harmaline definitely seems to provide the pain relief and body relaxation that i was missing with the roasted stuff.

As for the taste of the tea, when it's a clean tea, it's only a little bitter but aside from that it's very palatable/drinkable, which seeing as how most of it is raw Rue, that's very surprising for me because as most probably know, Rue is putrid in smell and taste, and the thought of encapsulating seed powder, especially raw seed powder, these days really makes my guts quiver and i can gag just thinking about it lol, but this tea, i can drink it just fine and while i may get a little bit of gut funkiness as it's kicking in (especially as the dosage of Harmaline increases), it's quite manageable and easy to hold down, haven't purged yet.

This is an awesome thread. I have yet to try roasting seeds, but will do in the nearer future and surely report back here.

One thing that came to mind when reading is that it seems to be taken for granted how people 'brew' their brew, or rather there seems to be an implicit assumption that everyone does it the same way. However, I can think of and have tried many different ways (ranging from powdering seeds and only simmering for twenty minutes to multiple hour-long boils). Furthermore, some people drink the (powdered) seeds (although I suspect that this is not the case here).

In my experience, variations in brewing can affect subjective experience, and especially nausea, quite a bit. So, what is the style of brewing that everyone talks about in this thread, or is it different for everyone?

That's interesting, what time of harvest do you suggest to lower (the subjective) harmaline content? And is overall potency reduced as well?

İt depends on area. Where I harvest September is a good time for a clearer, lighter quality. Some time around October it turns to becoming harmaline dominant and the quality continues to get heavier and heavier through late fall and winter. Yes, overall potency is also less in early season.

I grind the seeds and prefer simmering (multiple times) to boiling.

dithyramb, I have seen your posts mentioning the use of rue root. I wanted to ask, considering your experience, if you have left pulled-up rue plants in the dark for a few days/weeks to see if alkaloid content may increase/change?

I am currently doing this and plan to do an extraction on the roots and aerial parts.

Hi Woolmer. Do you have experience with rue root? İt has a very different character than seeds in my experience.

From where is the idea to leave it in the dark? İ have not tried it, though it must have took at least a few days from harvest to brew making and I don't leave plants in the sun.

Do you have any knowledge of successful brews made from rue root?

I have no knowledge or experience with rue root. I recently found a large population growing wild and will be trying out some teas and extractions as this plant is invasive to my country.

The idea to leaving the whole plant in the dark comes from that which is commonly done with trichocereus. I may be wrong about this mechanism, but I believe the idea is that a lack of light and water stresses the plant and causes it to produce more alkaloids.

One thing I can note after having the rue sitting in the dark for a few days now is that it has taken on a very fishy odour while the plants are still alive and no visible mould is present. So it seems that there has definitely been a response to the stress provoked on the plant.

İnteresting, thank you. İs it a traditional method or a new innovation? İs it verified?

I don't know if I will try rue root again because it felt like it's not meant to be used, perhaps apart from feeling the blessed rue energy.

While I'm not sure about published papers it has been reported a lot on the nexus and elsewhere that leaving cactus cuttings in the dark for months increases mescaline content. There are also many reports that during a drought tryptamine content increases in certain species. Perhaps the lack of water when leaving cactus cuttings also contributes to the increase in phenethylamine alkaloids.

Of course, this is not a traditional method nor verified with syrian rue as seeds are always used, but I think it is worth testing the whole plant in this manner as an alternative.

I see. İt's like torturing the plant to death. I have to feel into it to be sure it is right. Huachuma and probably many other cacti are known to stay alive when cut off. This strategy could only work for such plants.

Talking about whole plant, I also tried drinking a brew from whole rue in budding phase, minus the roots. An incredibly strong spirit... Extremely firm and stern, like iboga. Not something I would like to repeat soon.

Just wanted to bring this thread back up to try and troubleshoot my attempt at doing this with DMT. I saw somebody posted here that they successfully dark roasted 6 grams and DMT was orally active. So I tried dark roasting 5 grams of rue tea then drinking tea made with 6 g of acacia confusa root bark. Unfortunately, that didn't seem to be enough of an maoi to activate my DMT. I wonder if maybe I roasted for too long? My burner doesn't have the best heat control and I tried roasting them on a pan. I listened for all the seeds to pop and moved them around on the pan for a bit keeping them evenly spread. How long should I keep it on the pan? Should I perhaps try a higher dose of rue to dark roast if I want it to make my DMT active?

Bit of a tangent to the main thread, but cactus metabolism (known as CAM - crassulacean acid metabolism) is such that they absorb CO2 at night in order to minimise loss of moisture through the stomata. The CO2 is stored in the form of malic acid. It appears alkaloids are produced to counteract this increased acidity. They are more basic than ammonia and can be formed from amino acids, thus the plant doesn't need to deal with transporting mineral cations and the problem of how to dispose of their corresponding anions.