this is going to be interesting.

it was always obvious what BBB was.
anyone could figure it out in a heartbeat.
i mean, all you have to do is peruse any drug forum and you can gather all the info about them you need.
on top of that, he advertised everything for what it was.
ethnobotanicals.
no dyes, or decor, or accessories, etc..
just products for sale that can alter the mind and body.
then he had neurosoup.
biggest fucking mistake ever.
i mean did you learn anything from the 2 videos you watched out of curiosity?
no, not at all..
i think they should be arresting that bitch for providing terrible information..

my biggest interest lies in what his possession and manufacturing charges will be.
BBB provided people with every ethnobotanical you could ever want to use.
do you really think they didnt use them themselves..?
im sure he had mad extractions going..
i mean, where do you think he got his deems and mescaline?
even if he wasnt, he had everything to do so.
i think one of the biggest charges is the last one that was listed, which was the containers.
that right there is at least grounds for conspiracy and intent to manufacture.
i have a feeling that a lot of his charges will be conspiracy actually.
i have a hard time believing that a judge will charge him with possession of controlled substances when theyre still in a plant or seed or bark, etc.
even opium poppies are legal until you harvest the sap.
so how could bark, cacti, etc that has to be chemically processed to make a drug be illegal?
i dont think that even an analogue act would cover that..
then again, i dont know what they found as far as "useable product" goes.
there was a laundry list of drugs they confiscated from him.
hell most likely serve a felony term for possession with intent to distribute.

i guess its a bummer that this happened to them.
ive heard some people on here say some kind words about the individual(s) in trouble.
back in the day i used to order stuff from them and it always seemed a little too easy to be doing what i was doing.
i always felt uneasy about how everything was described as 100% substance, but not for human consumption.
long ago i realized that their prices were way high and found another dealer.
the guy i use now is half the price and of higher quality.

this guy made the fatal error of wanting to both supply and participate.
you have to either be the big man supplying and keep your nose totally clean or be the little guy flying under the radar doing the dirty work.
as soon as "big guy" tries to be "cool guy", everything crashes.
as you can see.

idk.
i feel little sympathy for the guy.
how the hell could you not see that one coming before you even started..?

That's a good point. When we live in countries that only have about 60% turnout to vote, apathy is a major problem...

me 2

Took the words right out of my mouth bro. EXACTLY.

On another note. I wouldnt order from BBB anymore. Donate to them if you want yes no problem. But if a place got busted, maybe Im just wearing a tin foil hat but I do take caution when ordering materials. Legal or not. Its what the end result comes to is how I treat the situation.

Anyone ordering to their own home is ridiculous. Legal or not. The FDA/DEA can and Im sure will go through their clients. Finding the bigger clients info etc. It could also be disclosed as a plea bargain. But Im sure the FDA already has their client list and its only the tip of the iceberg. As terrible as it is.

Maybe SWIMS too cautious. Or maybe SWIMS playing it safe. Knowing SWIM doesnt have to worry and can sleep at night does pay off in times like this.

the judicial system isn't based on morality. The laws are made by people who don't care about anything but themselves.

They laugh at us like they laugh at everybody.

They are nothing but empty shells, soulles pieces of machinery.

I don't compare them to hitler but rather to eichmann, they're the people who do the paperwork, who make the whole operation run smoothly.

And they're all clones. They look alike, talk alike, think alike and act alike.

We have setup a fund for Jon's defense, and you can donate online:

http://www.savejon.org

Thanks!

Just tested out that link from TheGuy.

For my donation I received a strong feeling of happiness and empowerment.

Money well spent in my opinion.

Pokey the Optimistic

*$100 money order sent.

Yeap it was a long time coming. Let this be a warning to all other suppliers don't team up with fucking neurosoup (remember that bitch that let a guy get tortured and then turned informant? yeah real clever BBB) or make a doco about psychedelics as an ad for your site or have a forum dedicated to extracting drugs from your plant products and don't label any of them as etheogens. You really cannot be more obvious or blatent. Completely obvious.

My argument is that it should still be allowed. You should be able to legally sell all plants. Extracted drugs are a little different, but plants that were made by God? They grow outside in nature. You should not outlaw nature in any way. That's a crime against God. God made mimosa, HBWR, cacti, etc. They are a part of our natural world. All herbs should be 100% legal, no matter what. The FDA and DEA should not be allowed to interfere with nature or the sale of plants, seeds, etc. They need to be barred from doing that.

They would still be operating and a man would still be living his normal life if they hadn't had the extraction info or all the blatent psychedelic drug ties. Without any of that the DEA would have nothing. I know its a crazy situation and the laws are rediculous but those in a supplier position need to be extremely careful because they have big red targets painted on them.

After sharing ceremonial space for a cascade of amazing experiences between friends this weekend, the only thing I felt in my heart, when I thought about this whole BBB situation, is, "This is a crime. This is insane."

It is a crime against God. A crime against that which supports life, our planet.

It is also a crime against the Self. Knowing our most intimate nature.

It is a crime against Freedom. It is a crime to dictate what one can and cannot put into the body.

The laws must be adjusted. Things have already been set in motion; we have to do what we can. If something is beautiful, holy, and healing... there is nothing ill to be said.

In discussing these events with a friend, he said something to the effect of, "Yeah, but the powers that be like things a certain way."

Many of the "powers that be"--the powers that exist--you, myself, and the human population--could embrace something like this if properly educated and explained. A very small percentage of "the powers that be" are actually actively assuming positions of power.

This can change. We can help it change.

If any of my friends, three of who were totally new to DMT, would have had shattering, jarring, confusing, or otherwise negative experiences, I would have rethought my situation completely. But to witness the sheer transformation, expansion of consciousness--and LOVE--the love and thanks that poured from EVERYONE--made the truth quite clear.

DMT is a fucking mircale. Period. There are several ways to fight. Will you fight for it?

And, the implications if things are ruled out of our favor--making god-given PLANTS illegal, making exploring YOURSELF illegal, and allowing authorities to control what you ingest--what does that mean for us as a collective? What do we believe? What is important? What is life really about?

Jonathan Sloan was a bit sloppy, yes, but perhaps now is the best time to call the whole system into question. We are only doing good.

{Ayahuasca turned me into an eco-activist, donating $$$ to the RAN, opening a green business. Smoking DMT is turning me into an entheogenic rights activist. )

While some of the practices of this fellow and the way he was running his business definitely can be called into question, the big issue here is the legality of the plants – Period - not the extracted substances if indeed he was being that stupid.

Just a question here that perhaps some of my Stateside comrades can answer...What is the legal status of Jimson weed down south? I mean this is a seriously effective plant when active (simply orally)... but it grows everywhere. Is the position of the government to ban the plant that could conceivably pop up on your lawn with any number of other weeds unless you dump a pile of chemicals on the grass?

Is Jimson Weed merely commented on as in "don't touch it - you might kill yourself." or can you get busted for having the seeds in your possession? What if the climate of North America was more suited to have Chacruna, MH or Caapi vines growing in the field in the back yard - what then would be the argument for making these illegal?

Pot is another one but Pot is touchy because of its addictive profile. Not many people would swallow “magic mushrooms” even if they were growing in their back yard (though I would appreciate any leads in this regard!).

I suppose mushrooms grow all over and they are indeed illegal to possess (?) but what if one day (this day will come) when common grasses are harvested for their psychoactive properties? To me it sounds as if the government must think real hard or they'll be at this forever until it will be illegal to ingest anything that isn't regulated on the grocery store shelves.

I have strong doubts that BBB has been the only vendor possibly dipping into their own stock, and though the forum is another matter, I also have my doubts that the ethnobotanical trade would've continued uncontested by federal bodies. They obviously chose the easiest and most financially successful target they could find (the drug war always comes down to money, as others have mentioned), but who's to say there weren't other potential candidates? This is no isolated incident, the feds have made their position clear: They want to bring the war to the entheogenic community. Their motivations are money and political sway, but our motivations go to the very core of our being and can unite us if we allow it. The politics of economy and populism are fickle, but entheogenic culture is ancient and displays potential for rapid growth; at the very least, we can outlast them.

nice post fati, well said

I think this is our strength.
When grass can be made into dmt, then the war has surely been won.

WTF

http://www.savejon.org/

Where have you been man!??!

Theres a thread on it here https://dmt-nexus.me/for...t.aspx?g=topics&f=57

donate!

ive been out for a long while, shit I did... looks like i need to check for updates more often

I'm confused, did I miss some breaking news? Last time I looked, the feds hadn't made their position clear... in fact, they haven't weighed in on the issue at all. The FDA has shown that they are interested in controlling plant materials laced with indolealkylamine cannabinoid agonist drugs (like the K2 they seized from BBB), but they haven't "brought war" to the people who use these products (who generally are more likely to fall into the category of drug-test-dodging parolees than entheogen users). But they haven't charged anyone with possessing these things. The FDA had no intention of charging BBB, nor do they currently have the legal authority to do so. All they can do is seize the materials.

The attack on the entheogen community here has come from Kansas state law enforcement. They are the ones who seized the scheduled plant materials and arrested Jon Sloan on felony manufacture/distribution charges.

The federal authorities have nothing to do with this arrest as far as I'm aware, and I take that as a good omen. The DEA has been well-aware of DMT extractions from MHRB (and other plants) for years, and they've been entirely satisfied to ignore us and focus on other drugs that are more in the public eye. They may continue to take this stance, and leave it up to individual states to decide if they wish to pursue legal action against the distribution of such plants. But unless you've seen some information that I have not, the feds haven't taken any position on this issue, either for or against the entheogenic community.





A quick search of the DEA website indicates that atropine/scopolamine/hyoscyamine are not in the first three schedules... in other words, Jimson weed is legal. I would guess some states have it listed as a "noxious weed", meaning it's a misdemeanor to deliberately propagate the plant, but simple possession is not illegal.




The arguments for these plants being legal has nothing to do with the suitability of the climate. The only issue is whether the plant in question contains scheduled drugs. If it does, then it's illegal. The way the law deals with the fact that some illegal plants (like san pedro, morning glories, Phalaris grass, and Illinois bundleflower) grow ubiquitously (and sometimes even on government property) is that there is no legal liability if the owner is unaware that there are scheduled drugs naturally occurring in the plants.

You mention psilocybian mushrooms, which are a great example. They're absolutely illegal to possess, but no landowner is going to be charged simply because they grow on his property. Even someone hunting for edible mushrooms who happens to pick a psilocybin-containing mushroom is not doing anything illegal if he did not realize what it was. But anyone who is aware that a particular mushroom (or plant) contains a scheduled drug can be charged for being in possession of it.

It's a funny law that punishes knowledge (and limits the legal gardening options of the well-informed citizen). But this interpretation has been supported by dozens of court cases, and the constitutionality of it has been implicitly upheld by the Supreme Court, so violating the law simply because it's absurd is dangerous ground to tread on... as BBB found out.