I would say religious rights to practice shamanism or spiritualism. If you feel that these whateveryouwanacallems help you connect with spirits/gods that you believe in, then it should be your right to do so. Even some priests think that the bible was inspired by drinking a magic tea and having visions....sound familiar?

I agree that a drug is a chemical that alters your consciousness, and that those are all drugs that you listed (even if i prefer other terms; which is irrelevant to my point here)

What I didn't agree with at all is Marijuana and DMT being lumped in the same catagory of drugs that you define as "ones that give you a buzz or decrease your ability to function". This is a ridiculous definition of the wide range of effects that drugs illicite. To each their own, but personally i'd say mj and some others do quite the opposite for me, and many people that i know. Sure they can decrease some ability to function..if you define good functioning as the ability to operate heavy machinery effectively-which I'm sure many actually disagree with.

"The word drug can stand for......

" drug, broadly speaking, is any substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function. There is no single, precise definition, as there are different meanings in drug control law, government regulations, medicine, and colloquial usage.

In pharmacology, a drug is "a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being." Drugs may be prescribed for a limited duration, or on a regular basis for chronic disorders.

Recreational drugs are chemical substances that affect the central nervous system, such as opioids or hallucinogens. They may be used for perceived beneficial effects on perception, consciousness, personality, and behavior. Some drugs can cause addiction and habituation.

Drugs are usually distinguished from endogenous biochemicals by being introduced from outside the organism. For example, insulin is a hormone that is synthesized in the body; it is called a hormone when it is synthesized by the pancreas inside the body, but if it is introduced into the body from outside, it is called a drug.

Many natural substances such as beers, wines, and some mushrooms, blur the line between food and drugs, as when ingested they affect the functioning of both mind and body."


Well thast great and all..but the origional definition of the word "drug" was "dried plant"..se what heppened there..language evolved it seems..

You arent getting the point at all of what i said either..you can pull out dictionary definitions all you want but to me thats just avoiding the actual point of what i said..noone needs to change what "drug" says in the dictionary..but people need to start broadening the spectrum of what a "drug" is when they choose to talk about drugs to children etc..there should be an emphasis on sub-categories and the difference between these things..am amphetamine is diff from an indole tryptamine..really, I mean its not that hard to understand..whats so hard to understand abot that?

So why didn't you answer my question? If i want to talk about the group of drugs which i'm talking about, which you obviously understand, what one word can i use to suit you? Without listing different categories?

becasue even your use of the word just saying substance that impare your ability to function is an over-generalization and shows a lack of understanding of how these things work...jsut becasue something has a pharmacological effect doesnt mean it impares ability to function..and if it does..in what ways?..

Look at Doc ellis and his famous baseball game he pitched...did his function really seem to be impared?..psychedelics enhance function just as much as they impare it..so that way of describing it is just too ambiguous.

Well how about recreational drugs? Both MJ and DMT are in that category, or how about psychoactive, both MJ and DMT fall in that category. The word Drugs covers all drugs, both DMT and MJ are in there. I guess i'll stick with recreational, truly thats what the topic is about, use of recreational drugs, by deffinition groups all that i'm talking about. I do understand the english language. I can say drugs in general which covers all drugs by deffinition of drug, but i'm only talking about recreational drugs. You say i can't group them, yet the deffinition says otherwise.



Just because you can drive on MJ dosen't mean your judgement is not impaired, you can space out...and off the road or hit someone. Just because you can bring it together and drive while drunk dosen't mean that your judgement isn't impairmed. I understand what your saying, which is why there are other words that further breaks them down, but i was talking about a group, so i had no need to do so.

What are you talking about?...if you want to resort to a definition in some book to tell you how everything is thats fine..id rather use my brain and think for myself..you cant even compare DMT to cannabis..Ive smoked both many times i could care less what you read in a book about I know the difference.

If you think that DMT is really recreational like cannabis is that you dont understand the dicotomy that exists between these things..

A word is how its deffined, you cannot just change what a word is because you don't like it, and i use my brain alot, thank you. Its pointless to further discuss this, write your on dictonary, and tell people that its incorrect to use one word to group more than one thing. Thats like saying i can't say clothes, i would have to say, Shoes, shirts, socks, underwear, pants.............

See, now you are changing the subject...

You said that drugs are substances that impare ablility to function..now you are going on saying that its just a a group based on subgroups..

No, im not changing the subject, i just looked at the dictionary as a reference to find the word that groups the drugs im talking about. And i didn't define drugs as blah blah, i said the "type of drugs" im speaking of, "type of" dosen't mean all things that are considered drugs.

"finding the right songs, and singing them over and over is a start"..a great man once said that..

The way that you choose to use language dictates how you're impact here will shape each little peace of reality that your life touches upon..

The way we choose to say things can leave alot up inthe air..or it hit the target..its all about how you deliver your linguistics..

Its like a song..each note is important to the overall mood and picture it imparts..the understanding one has upon hearng it..the way you speak about something is important..the way you put together language is important..as our understanding(or misunderstanding) of something grows, so must the lables we place on these things..

If you want someone to understand something without imparting dogmatic categorizations to things and unrealistic superficial connections between seemingly different things you have to keep that in mind.

You give or take power through your words..

In the US the term "drug" means many different things dependent on the context it is used in. It can mean a "good drug" one approved by society typicaly for medical purposes, or a "bad" drug one used to get "high" or some intermediate.

There exist plenty of distinctions and categories of these chemicals that are recognized and used (Empathogen, hallucinogen, classical hallucinogen, dissociative, stimulant, relaxant, ....). However the general public does not care. Same reason why many just call a tree a tree not a maple, spruce, acacia,...then even what type of spruce, maple, ...everything is unique...) if you are personally interested in these things and have experience you will make the distinctions. One can change the way they see the world through linguistic characterization.... However when it comes to "dangerous drugs" People just do not care they view all recreational drug use that is not approved (alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, theobromine) as dangerous drugs of abuse. The distinctions exist and people don't make them because they don't give a shit. they believe the bullshit propaganda they are spoon feed.

People who are educated about these things likely do speak to their children differently and explain the differences. However the general public doesn't give a shit that some people use DMT for spiritual purposes and thus it should get its own term. They see it as a drug that could be abused by the children. ... and it could be in this sense they view recreational use as abuse.... which is obviously wrong...

The emphasis should be on responsible drug use versus irresponsible... not any given "psychoactive drug".... any drug or thing can be abused. If so called "open-minded people" on this website still view drugs like cocaine, methamphetamine, and heroin as BAD, than how can we expect others to view hallucinogens as good. The point is that anything can be abused.. we must learn to minimize the harm, and use these things responsibly which evidence suggests most people actually do so we need to convince people of that and that it would be harder for their children to get controlled drugs than illegal ones.... as we must THINK OF THE CHILDREN, the poor CHILDREN....

I don't really know what to say? I didn't think i had to be so technical, i figured people would just understand what i was saying and either disagree or agree with explanations of why they would disagree. I wish i had thought of what bufoman suggested before hand, but if i did, i wonder if people would come in saying...but it would be bad if people took antibiotics for fun, which would be true. I just wanted people to know that just because you smoke DMT for fun only and not spiritual gain, dosen't make it irresposible, and really at this point...im afraid to mention anyother drug(lol).

Well said, Fractal. Our words and thoughts are what help to create the reality tunnel that we travel through.

You are a DMT user who wants respect. Go out and change the world, take action. Help that old woman get her car out of the ditch, then mention to her BTW I am DMT user and I am GLAD I was able to help you.

Old woman whos car was in ditch says "DMT what are you talking about" Then its time to BREAK the stereotype and get real support for what we all believe in.

This is a real course of action to prove to Society we are real. Yes DMT has power the power to heal and help everyone.
Do some charity work in the name of DMT and tell them why you did it.

I have seen two almost three generations go by. I once had big dreams back in the Jimmy Carted days that weed would be legal.

Cannabis is a gateway its the first step in taking responsibility and changing the laws. Does anyone here think DMT will be legal before cannabis thats another La La land thing.

The more we isolate ourselves from society with new terms(DMT slango) the longer we will wait until we are taken as the normal society members that we are.

Peace Friends

This is a really interesting thread, thanks for all the great posts. It's got me thinking - hope you all don't mind me throwing two cents in ...

Clearly public perceptions of the word 'drug' vary immensely, depending on context: Drugs are wonderful when treating medical problems; irritating when they're spam in your inbox; harmless when you buy them over the counter; and a terrifying scourge on society when taken for pleasure. It seems to reflect an almost masochistic puritanism in 'western' culture.

To be honest, I'm no fan of what most people would understand by the term "drugs" - heroin, coke, speed, acid, ecstasy, even mj ... but all for my own reasons. I find the intentions of those I've met who use H to be quite dark, and it's addictive so no thanks. Coke turns most people into arseholes who can't shut the fuck up about themselves; e's lovely, but, like acid, the comedown is too hard to bear at my age for it to be worth the high. I rarely if ever smoke weed - maybe once or twice a year, if that. Just couldn't be bothered. Muddies my head the next day, and I'm too busy for that.

Having said all that, I don't have a problem with anyone else partaking in these things. Why should I? Why should anyone?

The criminalisation of 'drugs' has done nothing to stop the trade and use of them. All it has done is put them in the jurisdiction of criminals.

As a result, there is very little quality control, no tax, no research, no testing, no consumer choice, and very little rational debate.

Just imagine if we treated drugs like we did booze or even cigarettes: There are controls in place - limited licensed premise to purchase and consume them; age limits; countless studies; quality controls and accountability. And although booze and smokes probably take more lives (I'm guessing) than all the recreational drugs combined, as a society we manage this pretty well, and we have not descended into outright anarchy.

I believe that as a society we have to grow up about drugs. Accept that we all take them at some stage of our life, whether it's in a coffeeshop, hospital ward, all night party or in the solitude of our own homes communing with the spiritual world, we take drugs. Always have. No doubt, always will.

And the key to the change in perception is right there in the looseness of the word "drugs". By pulling this word apart, we see how much public policy is guided by misconception.




The medical use of herbs is broadly viewed as hocum, even though most pills and capsules you get from a pharmacy contain active ingredients derived from plants, and the average citizen is so ignorant of hwo they work that it may as well be voodoo ...

One thing about the classical hallucinogens and DMT in particular is that even if used for recreational purposes one can still get "spiritual" (I mean that loosely) experiences out of it. I have used these agents for many different purposes including scientific, experimental/curiosity, spiritual/psychological, and recreational. I have gotten a lot out of these agents and I don't always get what I initially expected. For example taking it recreationally can lead to psychological insight. Our vis a versa.

In this way hallucinogens have potential as psychological agents however other drugs including cocaine and opiates can have positive psychological effects as well. I have seen many people open-up after using an opiate (similar to MDMA). It is all how it is used, and the intent of the user. Most people are able to use these things responsibly. All drugs can be abused even as was pointed out antibiotics and non-psychoactives. I believe that a huge difference could be made by spending our tax dollars on "responsible use" educations rather than the current abstinence strategy.

I agree that cannabis is the stepping stone that society needs towards outright regulation of all psychoactive/recreational chemicals. I can not wait til the day that the pharmaceutical industry will be actively developing novel recreational agents. The use of mind-altering substances can be observed through-out the animal kingdom. Drug use for medical, recreational or spiritual purposes has been used by our ancestors prior to the first Homo sapien sapiens being born. It is not going anywhere.

I've known people who've taken LSD to just to get high, and ended up having the most inspiring life changing experience of their entire lifetime. You never know what to expect.

The first time SWIM used LSD, he discovered he was prejudice against all non-white people. Not really badly so, but he definitely was. This behavior stemmed from his mother. He saw the world from a white-centric view and didn’t really take in other cultures or give them the same validity he gave his own culture. He was appalled by this. Ever since then, he has been a better man, and loves all of man-kind's cultures and races equally. It was an eye opening experience.

SWIM entered the LSD experience wanting trippy colors, visual effects, etc., but ended up with a life changing experience. Not even 100 years in therapy could have shown SWIM the flaws he saw in himself that day. They were as clear as day. SWIM saw his flaws and fixed them all.

Now he’s married, and yes, his wife is NOT white He’s married to the most wonderful woman in the world. Had LSD not shown him his flaws, his life would not be as nice as it is now. His wife’s culture has been nothing but a blessing in SWIM’s life.

So, SWIM went in excepting to have fun, and came out a better man.

spirtual experiences can be recreational...and doing something for fun can be very spiritual..

Surfing and skimboarding to me is spiritual...better than any meditation i could ever imagine..and its fun..i love to take psilocin and mescaline and glide smoothly along the face of a glassy wave..for me its a very intense personal and spiritual experience with god.

Ron, amazing story!

There are three different types of respect and responsibility that should be considered, IMHO: social, personal, and environmental.

A person who goes to a party Friday night because he has off from work the next day, sends his kids to Auntie's house, and has a cab drive him home after getting smashed is doing this in a socially responsible way.

Getting totally smashed, however, is very hard on the body, and may not be the most PERSONALLY responsible thing to do. But perhaps he could drink less, drink slowly, drink on a full stomach and stay hydrated. (I choose not to use alcohol, but there are some wiser ways to drink than others.)

If the man chooses to get drunk with organic orange juice and hemp vodka, he is taking environmental responsibility into consideration.

Ideally, one should strive for responsibility in all three areas. If the nature of the drug in question cannot adhere to all three, then perhaps the drug in use should be questioned.

Maybe we can even add one for spiritual responsibility?

For example, when I take Kratom, I make sure that I am taking small amounts, infrequently (1-2 times/month), and that it will not hamper my work or relationships in any way. I stay at home. My sources are organic.

HOWEVER, when I drink Ayahuasca or smoke DMT, it pushes me to entirely new levels of responsibility--social, environmental, personal, and spiritual. It always pushes me to a higher standard, and sloppiness in any of these categories invariably results in a harsh/anxiety-producing experience. Pay the credit card. Speak honesty with my friends. Put clean food into my body. So, this is unique, from other "drugs," in that it is the only one that DEMANDS my responsibility before engaging.

Sometimes Cannabis will point out sloppy behavior in the forms of paranoia. But DMT directly connects me with the spirits of all of those who are hurt or endangered by my actions, and moves me to change my actions immediately out of compassion. Kratom, while used responsibly, just makes me feel good.

I had a blast last time I met Quetzacoatl, by the way.