I felt i should have my discussion here, don't want to litter your progress with my debates.




I don't know how many of you...but i do get that some believe that because you use a drug for spiritual enhancment it makes it responsible, and because you use a drug for fun it is irresponsible.

When obliguhl says, to be responsible in use is to respect the power of the substance, i can see that as responsible use....be aware of the effects. Don't smoke DMT at the mall, or anyother irresponsible method, in a place where you need to function correctly. This is fine, and very responsible.

But some say that it is irresponsible to use a drug simply for fun. What about golf...is playing golf for fun irresponsible? No, so doing things for fun is not irresponsible.

Doing drugs for fun, neglecting your health and life responsibilities is irresponsible.

Doing drugs for fun, at the appropriate time, considering your health, and maintaining your life responsibilities is not irresponsible.

Doing drugs for spiritual growth, neglecting your health and life responsibilities is irresponsible. You can guess the last one.

You say drugs
I say neurotransmission.

When i say drugs, im speaking of the ones that give you a buzz or decreases your ability to function.


MJ, Beer, DMT, Cigs.......

I trip for spiritual and philosophical enlightenment and most of the time it is pretty damn fun. When it is not fun, it is still amazing in some strange way.

I use psychedelics, entheogens, plant teachers, drugs, drOOgz (heard that one a few times), neurotransmitters-pick your term- To grow, to experience, to gain insight, understanding, hightened awarness ect.. and they're easily the most rewarding and fun educational experiences I've ever had

Your lumping dmt into the same catagory as alcohol and cigs?

This statement is steeped in dualistic principles that hamper conceptualized thought. Fun and spiritual enhancement are NOT mutually exclusive experiences. Personally, I think exploring my own psyche is tremendous fun. This really has very little to do with responsible or irresponsible use as there are other factors that go into being responsible or irresponsible.

Let's say my intentions are to learn more about myself through a breakthrough vaporized DMT experience:

Scenario 1: I smoke it at home, in my bedroom having alerted one of my roommates what will be going on in "the other room". I settle in, smoke it and have a wonderful time. I learn about myself, feel connected to the universe, have a lot of fun and am back at baseline, eating dinner 30 minutes later.
This is responsible use

Scenario 2: I smoke from a truly awe-inspiring ledge on the Kennedy Center roof.
This is irresponsible use

Regardless of what happens to me or others as a result of my smoking is not the issue. By placing myself in a situation with a myriad of uncontrollable variables, I am potentially putting myself and others at risk. This doesn't mean that public use is always irresponsible, as i said, there are a ton of variables that must be examined to determine how responsible someone's being with a given substance.

Personally, I would say smoking cigarettes where nonsmokers are is irresponsible. As the drug user, the onus is on you to prevent yourself from adversely effecting those around you who have chosen to abstain from drugs. Their reasons don't matter, only your choice to respect them (responsible) or distrespect them (irresponsible). As to your rights as a smoker, yea, go ahead and light up your cancer stick, you are by all means entitled to, but you have no right to force that upon others and, as you are choosing to partake in the substance, it is you responsibility to do so in a manner that does not encroach upon others

Is DMT not a drug? I was under the impression it was.




I know its not simple to state whats responsible and whats not, but i figured the point would get across.....just because someone does a drug for fun without spiritual gain dosen't make it irresponsible. Really, because i smoke cigs and neglect my health, im am irresponsible for doing so(in my mind).

You make a good point, but driving a car releasing toxins in the air that people breath could be viewed the same, not disagreeing, just saying.

Being responsible has to do with filtering our reality through our own personally defined ethics. By defining our own personal ethos we abide ourselves to live by, we can see if we are living up to what is important to us or not. If I am not approving of my actions under the influence of a substance then my response-ability has diminished.
Sometimes when we are caught up having a ton of fun we may ignore what's important to us, we stop responding to what we should be responding to.
I try to find the balance while using drugs for spiritual or recreational purposes by upholding my personal integrity.

This is a personal subject matter, we may think someone is doing something "irresponsible" when looked at through our lense but to them it may be completely acceptable.

When I consider drugs like Meth and Cocaine, heroine.....IMHO.... I know there is no such thing as responsible use. The potential for addiction and associated health risks are way to high risk. Complications from even recreational use of these substances is likely. Every addict who tells his story starts off by just geting high. Using the above mentioned drugs in any capacity IMO is irresponsible.

SWIM has been looking for some cocaine to try strictly for comparison sakes. But really he thinks it takes a very well-documented psychonaut with great self control to take those drugs for the right reasons. ie: no more than a couple of times, thoroughly documenting effects to be used as a way to judge conciousness while on other psychedelics as well as in sober life.

If SWIM ever runs across some "blow" he thinks he'll try it for those purposes.

"Drugs" is such a stupid and ambigous term to try to use to desribe these pharmacologically very different things as a whole...

If you want to lump DMT, alcohol and cigarettes together you can go ahead and do that..but that doesnt make sense to me...

Might as well add things like sugar, vitamines, and all other foods like turkey etc into that category as well then...

The term "drugs" (which really means dried herbs) seems to encompass such a wide spectrum of things that have such a diverse range of pharmacological actions..it just seems pointless to keep on talking about it that way..it's a gross over generalization.

Ok we need a new term to describe drugs lets call it HAPPYsin
a. A substance used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of a disease or as a component of a medication.?
b. Such a substance as recognized or defined by the U.S. Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.
2. A chemical substance, such as a narcotic or hallucinogen, that affects the central nervous system, causing changes in behavior and often addiction.

We may as well rewrite history to suit our needs and our beliefs. Many are doing just that and its a insult to all that is true. A kick in the Balls of Humanity. Please excuse me but what makes one worthy to make these big decisions?

One who is worthy to redefine things already known.......and teach it to the young masses.... as fact .....the taliban....hitler....charles manson.....Brain Wash them all with new meanings to suit you desires.......

I dont like that so I will change it in definition only.....Change it in reality and please get back to me. I am a reality changer not a fantasy man. If you think putting new labels on old things changes reality well ......... Your living in La La land.

I will check back with you ten years from now. Your accomplishments will be null....Time will tell as it always does.

Nothing wrong with DRUGS the save they lives of millions of people every year and yes I also TRIP from DRUGS nothing wrong with that either. People who are addicted to DRUGS need help that wont stop me fro taking antibiotics when I have a infection.

Nothing wrong with DRUGS something is wrong with you understanding of them.

Pretty funny huh

PS q thats a killer avatar cracking me up

Peace

Thank you Venom for your clearification.


It is funny how i defined what type of drugs a was speaking of, yet still got weird remarks like DMT being lumped in with something else. I clearly stated the kind of drugs i was talking about, drugs that reduce your abilty to function, i threw cigs in because there a strong stimulate that i smoke irresponsibly, but really they didn't fit.

Alcohol fits in here because it decreases your ability to function, don't drink and drive. MJ decreases your ability to function, don't smoke and drive. DMT decreases your ability to function, don't smoke DMT while driving.

Technically, most things are drugs as Venom stated, from medication to food to illegal drugs that give you a buzz. As mentioned above, how i managed to group DMT in with alcohol is because they both decrease your ability to function, there are many other drugs that fall in this category i didn't mention, but i felt it was unnecessary to list every drug that decreases your ability to function.

"Might as well add things like sugar, vitamines, and all other foods like turkey etc into that category as well then..."

I think its safe to eat surgar and take vitamines and drive, so no, it does not fit.

This is a common misperception of the truth. In fact evidence suggests that the majority of individuals who use these agents in fact do so without it adversely effecting their lives. The misconceptions stem from the fact that TV programs and even much research is conducted with criminals in prisons, or individuals in rehab. This is a biased sampling and would be equivalent to studying the effects of ice cream use on cancer in a hospital. Here is an article showing how responsible users of heroin do exist. (Warburton et al. Occasional and Controlled Heroin Use. 2005). You can imagine that it would be difficult to collect data on responsible users as they are not willing to blow their cover.

Another misconception is that these drugs are more addictive than others or a even very addictive. Studies also show that only a very small percent of individuals who try a drug like heroin, or meth even like it let alone ever become addicted. I will put a source in for this but it is a well known fact and is in most drugs and behavior text books. I have met countless people who just use these drugs (EVEN HEROIN) occasionally or only on the weekends to party. Aside from them being expensive (because of prohibition) there were no complaints.

While so called harder drugs may have adverse effects many people use them recreationally without any problems. Others use them daily but may be self medicating. In many other cases "problems" are created by prohibition rather than innate properties of the drugs. That said anything can and will be abused, including hallucinogens, empathogens, eating, sex, gambling, ..... heroin.... one could make a propagandea case against anyone of these things.

Go to the DEA website and look under heroin facts. You will see that every "adverse" effect of heroin or heroin use can be DIRECTLY associated with having resulted from prohibition. Aside from being addictive and causing constipation heroin is one of the safest pharmacological agents known. It can be used for long periods of time without causing any adverse health risks. Prior to prohibition heroin and morphine were widely used yet despite being pure and cheap overdose was less, IV use was less, use associated crime was virtually non-existent, spread of disease from IV use was non-existent,.... so what has changed... prohibition has created these dangers....

Off topic as usual..
Then what is ELF going to do besides informing the mass and evolving the nexus? (which is a good thing)
we are already doing that here at the nexus..

prohibition is just a way of control
it is not a war on drugs. so cant win this war.

Back on topic...
You have said it all

I love it.



A worthy experience, but take care and be strong, don't take it for granted. Coca-chewing may be a better way to ease into that sort of thing if SWIY can get some.

Hmmm well I dont agree..

We refine the categories that we put things into as we learn more about things...the spectrum broadens and as more and more differences become apparent we find the need to put things into more seperate and individual categories..otherwise we just get caught up in that endless cycle of overgeneralizing..

Thats the way language and communication works..i dont really see where the problem is here..

THere is a difference between an amphetamine like methyl-amphetamine..and a tryptamine like psilocybin..and between an xanthene like caffine and a cannabinoid like cannabis...a BIG difference..

Haven't we had enough to just telling kids that "drugs are bad"..lumping all of these things into that overgeneralized category?..so when your kid smokes a joint and feels ok..why not smoke some meth-amphetamine the next?..i mean since its just another "drug"..

Thats how language and communication evolves.. It's called progress..you can be a part of it or you can stand in its way.

See, thats just crazy talk to me....no offence to you. A Drug is a Drug, there are many, i can't help war on drugs is not more specific, it could stand for war on medication, but it dosen't, it stands for war on illegal drugs.

What name do you want to give, so i can talk about ALL drugs that impair your judgement, get you high, make you hallucinate? The only word i know to talk about all these at once is drug, i don't feel i need to list every different kind of drug...the many categories, so i said drugs that decrease your ability to function, should i had said recreational drugs, i see hallucinogens fall in that category.

Wiki: Drug

The word drug can stand for......

" drug, broadly speaking, is any substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function. There is no single, precise definition, as there are different meanings in drug control law, government regulations, medicine, and colloquial usage.

In pharmacology, a drug is "a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being." Drugs may be prescribed for a limited duration, or on a regular basis for chronic disorders.

Recreational drugs are chemical substances that affect the central nervous system, such as opioids or hallucinogens. They may be used for perceived beneficial effects on perception, consciousness, personality, and behavior. Some drugs can cause addiction and habituation.

Drugs are usually distinguished from endogenous biochemicals by being introduced from outside the organism. For example, insulin is a hormone that is synthesized in the body; it is called a hormone when it is synthesized by the pancreas inside the body, but if it is introduced into the body from outside, it is called a drug.

Many natural substances such as beers, wines, and some mushrooms, blur the line between food and drugs, as when ingested they affect the functioning of both mind and body."