IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EMULATE ANY OF THIS
The effects of Eschscholzia californica, the Californian poppy, are well enough known. It is a plant that is easy to grow and obtain in sufficient quantities for worthwhile scientific experimentation.

After having tried smoking pretty much all parts of the plant - petals, stamens, leaves, stems, roots, seed pods (but not the seeds as they are too useful) - as well as ingesting proprietary gelcaps of the herb, I decided to attempt a crude alkaloid extraction as follows:

Seed pods were collected from the plants whenever they were approaching a state of ripeness. This is the point where they begin to lose their green colour a little and start to dry out, but before the pods have burst open. When ready, they detach from their stems with a gentle twist.

The pods were then placed in a paper bag and allowed to dry out in a warm, well-ventilated place. The top of the bag was left open a little in order to prevent mould formation. On sunny days, the pods would pop open from time to time, causing surprise and amusement.

At some point, the paper bag was sufficiently filled with now dried and popped pods. The pods were separated from any remaining seeds and ground to a fine powder in a coffee grinder (rotating blade type). This was achieved by repeatedly sifting out larger pieces and regrinding them. The final sift was through a very fine nylon mesh of the sort sometimes used for infusing tea or coffee.

This process furnished a very fine khaki- to tan-coloured powder, with a curious bleachy-alkaloidal smell, with malty and vanilla tones. The powder made a fairly acceptable snuff which clearly had an appreciable content of active compounds, thus it was used as a material for a (triumphant orchestral chord!) simple extraction process.

A heaped teaspoonful of the Cali-poppy-pod-powder was mixed with a similar amount of sodium bicarbonate powder (pharmaceutical grade) and intimately mixed in a small plastic ziplock baggie. (The actual intention here was to investigate the effect on the powder as a snuff. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it made it eye-wateringly painful, hence the progression to the next ingenious step.)

About a quarter-teaspoonful of the bicarbonate-blended powder (i.e. using not more than 500mg of plant material) was placed in a normal metal teaspoon. Sufficient boiled and cooled (fairly soft) tap water was carefully added to nearly fill the teaspoon.

The teaspoon was then heated over a candle flame and the liquid simmered. Some effervescence was observed which is to be expected when heating sodium bicarbonate solutions alone. The liquid was allowed to evaporate not quite to dryness, then removed from the flame. The remaining heat in the spoon finished off the drying process.

On examining the spoon, a tan waxy substance was seen to have collected around the edge. A small amount of this substance was subjected to a vaporization test using a pipe and lighter. It apparently vaporized leaving very little trace.

The vapour was very mild to inhale and produced a pleasant mood elevation, although a noticeable amount of alcohol had also been consumed by this point. Nonetheless, the described effect was greater than that of the alcohol alone. Further amounts of the product were smoked in a pipe to appreciable effect. The total amount smoked will have been (much) less than 75mg.


...and that is where the experiment currently stands, more or less.

Probably it would be fun to add a solvent extraction on after the boil, and of course to use a larger, measured quantity.

The other thing I would mention is that the product smelt very much like sponge cake :yummy: and had lost the bleachy tang of the starting material.


SOME NOTES ON SAFETY
Oh, yes, also - this describes playing with toxic alkaloids so handling of larger quantities should only be approached with due caution by persons of sufficient skills and experience, if at all.

Some of the activities described above may be dangerous, particularly the smoking of uncharacterised herbal extracts of unknown potency without weighing.

The safety parameter here was in the preparation using only an amount of substance which was known to be tolerated by the subject, plus E. californica's established properties as a recognized herbal medication.

(I weigh 60kg and have a fairly fast metabolism.)

The experiment took place in a safe, domestic, culinary setting.


If we're super lucky, photo's may follow...

Sounds like a lot of trouble to get psychoactive effects, but props for experimenting!

Are you looking for an opiate-like experience? If so, kratom seems like a much better candidate (and less toxic), plus you don't have to smoke it so you avoid lung irritation and possible carcinogens from burning plant material.

The experiment was a success!

This is one plant I am interested in for utilization. Being from the Ranunculales family, this family is quite toxic if not used properly and respectfully, but also has incredible health benefits regarding overall health and tone and powerful effects.

California poppy leaves were used medicinally by Native Americans, and the pollen was used cosmetically. The seeds are used in cooking.

An aqueous extract of the plant has sedative and anxiolytic action. The extract acts as a mild sedative when smoked. The effect is far milder than that of opium. California poppy contains a different class of alkaloids:

"An aqueous alcohol extract of Eschscholzia californica has been evaluated for benzodiazepine, neuroleptic, antidepressant, antihistaminic and analgesic properties. The plant extract did not protect mice against the convulsant effects of pentylenetetrazol, and did not cause muscle relaxant effects, but appeared to possess an affinity for the benzodiazepine receptor. The extract induced peripheral analgesic effects in mice but did not possess antidepressant, neuroleptic or antihistaminic effects." California poppy leaves were used medicinally by Native Americans, and the pollen was used cosmetically. The seeds are used in cooking.

An aqueous extract of the plant has sedative and anxiolytic action. The extract acts as a mild sedative when smoked. The effect is far milder than that of opium. California poppy contains a different class of alkaloids:

"An aqueous alcohol extract of Eschscholzia californica has been evaluated for benzodiazepine, neuroleptic, antidepressant, antihistaminic and analgesic properties. The plant extract did not protect mice against the convulsant effects of pentylenetetrazol, and did not cause muscle relaxant effects, but appeared to possess an affinity for the benzodiazepine receptor. The extract induced peripheral analgesic effects in mice but did not possess antidepressant, neuroleptic or antihistaminic effects." - Wikipedia

Interesting info regarding Eschscholzia Californica..

No. I just wanted to see what would happen. I've found the plant to be a very useful and beneficial ally, particularly during stressful times in my life. It appears to have anti-addicting properties and it is always clear when I no longer need its assistance. Hence my attempt to make a freebase alkaloid Cali-poppy-crack to really test this out (tongue fairly firmly in cheek here )

Plant is incredibly easy to grow and does best in a sunny location in dryish ground with rocks underneath. Likes to establish a taproot so is annual in pots or biennial if pot is large. Either way, sets abundant seed. All parts of the plant appear to be useful. The stamens are particularly nice to smoke.

I am missing the very important safety aspects here in the first post.

See this thread about the why and how of this:
[NEW] Policy regarding discussion of different drugs

If the first post will not be changed then this thread will be removed.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Could you please be more explicit? I have so far added a temporary warning.

So, here's a safety update - albeit not in connection with a smokeable extract.

Sometimes I still use finely powdered seed pod cases from Californian poppies as a sleep aid. Recently I added a teaspoonful to a cup of chamomlie and hemp tea, to make sure I really got to sleep. When I laid down to sleep afterwards, I noticed my heart rate was elevated to about 80 bpm when it should be around 60. This made me think a bit. It seemed to me there was an effect on my beta-adrenergic systems somehow. It's also worth noting that I ate about an ounce of hard cheese beforehand which may have contributed to the cardiac effect.

One of the main alkaloids in Cali. poppy is calfornine, pictured below - with a comparison to MMDA-2, which has a certain level of structural similariity. It occurred to me to check what the pharmacological properties of MMDA-2 are, and - lo and behold! - it turns out that it has been found to inhibit reuptake of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) [Biochem. Pharm. 27(10): 1497-1501]. So, I would not be at all surprised to find that californine would have some kind of measurable effect on the same systems.

This experiment is worth repeating but without the hemp, which has also caused mild tachycardia for me in higher doses.

Very interesting. Wonder if these poppies would be helpful to someone going through benzodiazepine withdrawal.

I applaud this thread highly. Never experimented with this type of poppy but I have had the prestigious privilege of getting to know the somniferum's quite well. Would be interested to hear more on the subject of Eschscholzia californica. Although I would say that from all the knowledge I have gained thus far regarding somniferum (which at this point I am not sure is even really relevant to Eschscholzia californica so take this with a grain of salt) it really is for all intents and purposes more practical to use orally than any other method.

They say that prior to opium being introduced in a "smoked" preparation (which from research I have 100% confirmed is in fact pharmacologicaly different than raw opium, raw opium being the only type of real opium I have ever had the pleasure to try and at first was baffled by why it was giving me literally zero effects when smoked) that there never was even remotely as much of an "epidemic" (as it were) of opium addiction as was seen after the introduction of refined opium (chandu) and pipes with which to "smoke" (vaporize) it.

The introduction of smoke-able opium brought with it an increase in the rush and rapid action of the high, while decreasing its longevity. It also supposedly (and most likely it is true) decreased the constipation which would normally be experienced from oral ingestion, as well as decreasing the nausea associated with it.

While these things seemed like a great advancement or benefit at the time they actually boomeranged back in the long run because people realized in its smoked form it was even more addictive and in fact even less practical as a medicine.

Its almost as if the more people have refined a product like opium the more they have exacerbated its narcotic and addictive properties and reduced its truly medicinal value.

Sorry if this post is viewed as "irrelevant" but I find it hard to find any opportunity for conversation which is scholastic and novel on the subject of poppies (regardless of what kind of poppy) and I just thought I would take the bull by da hornz.

Eschscholzia californica pharmacology is entirely different from that of Papaver somniferum. This does not mean that concentrated extracts of E. californica are any safer, of course. (Even if I suspect them to be, at least as regards addictive potential - I have found Californian poppy to be functionally self-limiting in that respect. Acute toxicity of the alkaloids is probably higher, however.)

Cognitive Hearts's post above outlines this plant quite nicely. Cali poppy was particularly helpful for me as an anxiolytic when this was really needed. Cessation was entirely painless once the situation was resolved.

I apologize if it is bad manners to revamp this post but figured my question was relevant here.

DFZ, what are the toxic alkaloids which you mention? I have seen no reports of this. One study states the LD50 of being higher than 5000mg/kg.

I would like to experiment with this plant but am wary due to your warnings.

You're absolutely welcome to continue the discussion here, Woolmer.

The LD50 is presumably for the whole plant. There's a fairly extensive list of alkaloids for Eschscholzia californica, which I could dig out of Shulgin's Isoquinoline alkaloids book. There are literary references for all of these though, so you have a chance to spare me from a bunch of typing

I've found the fresh plant to be mildly poisonous but this activity is lost on drying.

Commercially available Cali poppy as phytomedicine tends to be the root, or root + herb. This stuff seems to be safe enough, e.g. 5 capsules was fairly pleasant.

As mentioned above, the home-grown material that I've used the most is the dried, powdered seed pods without the seeds. About ½ to 1 teaspoon was effective enough when used alone.

I did try combining this seed pod powder with Syrian rue a few times. The most interesting effect was an enormous intensification of dream detail. The colours, the crispness, and the emotional affect were all outstanding. However, this seemed to come at a price - I started noticing a significant respiratory depression after the second successive day of trials. What I'm suspecting here is that something builds up due to the harmala alkaloids interfering with the imetabolism of some component or other. While this might sound like the effects of certain opioids, it actually reminds me of the reports of respiratory paralysis in frogs when given quaternary alkaloids like candicine. Eschscholzia contains quaternary alkaloids, too, such as californidine so there's a possibility of there being something there that can cause respiratory paralysis.

So, it really depends on the way that you're intending to experiment with this plant. Clearly, I've survived fairly well thus far but the key is to avoid being excessively reckless.

Thanks, I will look into the specific alkaloids further.

Interesting reports on the syrian rue + E. californica, I think I have read a thread of yours on this before.

I have been taking a weak fresh herb and root tea for the past few days. Seems indeed a nice anxiolytic, but perhaps nothing I can put passed placebo.

Also drank a fairly strong, dark-coloured tea from dried herb... Not very psychoactive. No negative effects.

Do you grow your own material, Woolmer? Stumbling upon the activity of the seed hulls was a lucky bit of inspiration perhaps but I would say it is worth trying that route. I'm feeling more than cautious about suggesting the combination with rue but the effects were so remarkable that independent confirmation would be highly desirable. On the positive side, I didn't notice any respiratory depression after a single dose so at a minimum it would seem prudent to leave a week between experiments and only proceed if thoroughly familiar with each of the materials individually. Ideally you would have a sitter who was able to check on your vital signs too. My concerns were sufficient to put my own tests on indefinite hold. If I continue it will be with precisely weighed doses of each, and no more than once a week.

Do you grow your own material, Woolmer? Stumbling upon the activity of the seed hulls was a lucky bit of inspiration perhaps but I would say it is worth trying that route. I'm feeling more than cautious about suggesting the combination with rue but the effects were so remarkable that independent confirmation would be highly desirable. On the positive side, I didn't notice any respiratory depression after a single dose so at a minimum it would seem prudent to leave a week between experiments and only proceed if thoroughly familiar with each of the materials individually. Ideally you would have a sitter who was able to check on your vital signs too. My concerns were sufficient to put my own tests on indefinite hold. If I continue it will be with precisely weighed doses of each, and no more than once a week.

Yes, I do grow my own material. They were planted on the property I moved into and have taken over an entire patch. I will be harvesting the seed pods for experimentation and to prevent them from spreading more.

I will get a good feel for the plant before heading into the harmala route if I ever do, and necessary precautions will be taken.

OK, so I realised that I actually have (at least) two batches of the powdered, dried, empty seed pods. I performed a cautious test with the 'other' batch (two doses on successive days, combined with rue alkaloid extract) and there was no observable respiratory depression - although I was likely much more careful with the dose level this time around. I also decided to stay awake during the onset of the effects so it was not possible to replicate the effect on dreaming.

With any luck I'll remember to do a test for the dream-enhancement effect in a week's time. The twist it gave to the rue experience while awake was, for want of a better description, something of an enhancement of the 'trippy' feel which took around two hours to come on fully. It also seemed to enhance the 'plant teacher' effect once I got to lie down in the dark. In summary, it seemed like a positive combination - but I would still repeat the need for utmost caution! It would be far safer not to combine Californian poppy with rue/harmalas at all - indeed, you may wonder why I chose to combine the two plants in the first place. (California poppy is an old ally of mine and I just wanted to know is the answer.)

Ideally, I'd do a TLC analysis on the two different batches of material in order to see if the one that gave problematic hints does in fact contain more of the quaternary alkaloids as per my hunch. No promises here on the duration for that one occurring, however. If the quaternary alkaloid hypothesis turned out to have some substance to it, it should be (hopefully) relatively straightforward to separate things with an A/B extraction utilising a sufficiently non-polar phase.

One more thing - thinking back, the difference between the two batches was that the seemingly more benign material was grown on a custom-landscaped pile of rocks whereas the suspect batch grew in a flower bed next to an area where artificial fertilizer had been applied.

What dose of fresh herb did you use, Woolmer? I'm a little surprised that you didn't complain of feeling poisoned by it. My symptoms were a bit virus-like, however, so it's a bit hard to be absolutely sure - and it's not something I'd care to replicate.

I forgot that I have actually used quite a decent amount of fresh material before. No weight I can provide though, but it was perhaps in uncompressed volume at least 500ml only of aerial parts.

I recall once making a concoction with fresh herb, a few rue seeds, and a local tea made of various fragrant plants including bark and such of certain local trees. I dropped some NaOH in a bit of leftover tea and observed the colour change as well as a blob of precipitate. It was left overnight and the blob became a bit more compressed but did not settle. It was not unlike the blob observed when trying to base Rue solution that has been manske'd (the filtered solution, without the harmaline and harmine).

I added very little rue, probably around 10-15 seeds. I believe Loveall suspected this blob after manske to be harmalol? Perhaps this is simply what happens when the concentration of harmalas is very low, or it could have been whichever other alkaloids were present in the various plants.

Overall I have felt very mild effects from this plant and never any toxicity. Perhaps I have not been in a very anxious state when taking the plant, therefore not being able to notice potential anxiolytic effects. Nonetheless, I cannot say I have had that much experience with it either, so I will continue to experiment.

Slowly sipped on 36g fresh tea that was prepared via 5 minute boil in microwave. Have also been drinking yerba mate this morning. Seems to be a nice combo. Feels almost as if the mate has been potentiated. Very stimulating effects, nice body high. No negative effects ~ 4 hours after consumption.