what a gripping topic! i agree somewhat with all that's been said here, and all that's been said is very true.. I think it is ok to take donations, charge for time, cover costs, trade, give, to sell if someone insists, it does all depend on the intent. Charging for spiritual knowledge in the magickal community has always been an ethical concern, but it is acceptable to charge for materials or take donations to cover costs, so it's essentially the same issue, and the same 'loophole'.

I have heard it does cost around $400/g to buy here in australia (which used to be about $200 USD but the prices don't change with exchange rate!)

Incedentally, I know someone who wouldn't mind being lucky enough to have someone walk them through their first time! DMT has found them, but they haven't found IT yet! haha peace.

Yeah Swim never felt right about selling it. But he does feel right about bringing it to anyone and everyone who is willing, after he has properly prepared them of course.

Swim does mostly huasca-type ceremonies, which he feels are more conducive to healing (though he's still glad to provide tickets to the wild ride of smoking it as well). He never charges for a ceremony, as that would be putting a price on someone else's health. He lets them do that. Donations are always welcome, and he has taken it as a sign that his ceremonial hosting skills are improving, since he has recently been recieving more generous donations.

Most certainly, oral dmt should not be given away. For one thing, the added risk of the maoi is a major factor. Also the length of the experience makes it potentially hard to deal with, and one should have a competent guide present, especially for the first time. Swim has on occasion tried giving rue+mimosa doses away to friends whom he thought were capable, and almost every time something went wrong. Usually it was the inability to understand the simple instructions of "take the inhibitor first, then the spice." Apparently this is really difficult for some people to grasp. Other times the gelcaps melted somehow, or the people ate a huge meal right before taking, and at least once a dumbass ended up giving some to his friend who was taking an SSRI :evil:

Fortunately nothing happened, but the ridiculous frequency of things going wrong whenever Swim gave away the medicine led him to the conclusion that the spirits do not appreciate him shirking responsibility, and that he is only s'posed to administer the sacrament in the proper environment, under his direct supervision. Much like a priest does not give "take out" communions at the drive-thru window.

This is another issue Swim has with smoke-able freebase, that it is too easily sold. This is a huge part of why swim hasn't worked harder to find a way to make freebase using limonene, he almost feels like there's something wrong with smoking it. At least compared to what happens when it's taken orally, smoking it -almost- seems like a waste somehow, and the entities he encounters seem disappointed in him for smoking when he could have taken it orally, since they have so little time to attempt to communicate with him.

Swim was talking about his limonene tek with a friend of his who has recently started selling the spice. This friend started selling it under the justification that he needed money for his family (another friend put this idea in his head, and I'm still kinda pissed at him for it, but whatever). Anyway since this guy started selling spice, bad karma seems to have come his way. But I digress... point being, I was talking about limonene with him, and he said "yeah, I'll start using limonene as soon as you find a way to get me some smokeable freebase that I can sell at the festivals." Something about hearing that made Swim not want to find a way to make smokeable freebase with limonene anymore.

There's definately something sacred about the spice. And for Swim, sacredness does not come with a price. As one friend said after his first freebase experience a few days ago (on the 29th, to be specific... journey well, Dr. Hoffman!), "you're right, can't put a price tag on that." And that coming from someone who normally puts a price tag on everything! It's great, seeing a materialist transformed into a spiritualist in only five minutes!

Can't tell anyone else what to do, or pass any judgement or anything, but I can ask you PLEASE do not sell the spice! Again if for no other reason than we don't need the DEA getting into this at all!

Points taken. Thank you, as this makes my friend reflect on the situation surrounding his new found ally and how it can or should be shared.

My views on this subject aren't cut and dried, however- not wanting to come over as a noid killjoy or anything- I can't help thinking that maybe it would be for the best if this thread was 'lost', even though it would mean the loss of some interesting posts.

^I was kinda thinking the same thing.

I'm closing this thread.