I agree, the film screamed ayawaska to me too. I would personally be surprised if the minds behind it had not directly experienced the vine. Someone email Cameron to ask, I dare ye!

I thought it was entertaining and charming. Sure it wasn't the best film ever written, and romanticised hunter-gathering, but I think it was made with very good intentions to awaken the masses to the plight of tribal people, and our own plight too, in a way that would not turn them off. The masses do not like films like The Mission, but they do like simple feelgood Hollywood films about fantastical aliens. Of course they would have wanted to make money too, but that does not detract from the good message. Tribal people are already jumping on its popularity, and Cameron's quote suggests that he truly believes in the message of universal connectedness:


Opiyum- the article says the language is based on Maori, not a Native American dialect. How they rode animals and paid respect to their kills definitely reminded me of north American tribes, while the aya spiritualism of course reminded me of Amazonians. And their seated trances made me think of more of Africa though I'm not sure why. Really the Na'vi stand for all tribal people, and I thinked he picked the 'best bits' of tribal cultures from all over the world.

Oh, doesn't the woman who dies when they try to transmit her soul to her avatar say "the Earth Mother, she's real"? Mother Earth is worshipped in Peru ('Pacha Mama', so could that be counted as another link to ayawaska? I might have heard that bit wrong though, and Europeans also use the term Mother Earth.

Finding patterns is a human tendency, possibly in a broader sense a sentient one.

Holy crap you disliked the effects in star wars but liked where the wild things are, a totally pointless movie?

" However, I do tend to enjoy supposedly boring films, such as "There Will be Blood"

i drink your milkshake.

Just saw it.
First of all, i must say that the 3D technology needs some perfectioning. Those glasses gave me a headache.

Technically it would be possible to use digital technology to create optical effects simmilar to holography, so that they use stereographic's is a bit primitive, but that applies to all 3D movies.

I found that the movie was, as you can expect with big hollywood blockbusters, visually overwhelming and entertaining. Just like that other movie:2012. They know how to make the most unplausible things look spectacularly good in hollywood.

I personally didn't expect an interesting story so i was pleasantly surprised by the underlying references to current political situations.

The movie didn't touch my heart though. Like 2012 it is purely entertaining and not much more, i think. It basically lacks psychological depth.

Compared to the first matrix movie, wich was also a hollywood blockbuster so that cannot be a criterium for shallowness, i found it rather tame.
'The matrix' had a philosphical undertone but more importantly, it had more psychological impact because A-it made better use of the power of suggestion, wich is a hollywood specialty and B-it put more emphasis on the mental journey of it's main character accumulating in a breach of all logic, wich totally fit's the messianistic dimension of it.

I didn't like the music that much either, you could clearly hear that more than 10 different people where writing it.

Hollywood blockbusters can have some depth, can be psychedelic or can even be both, there are plenty examples of it (the matrix, natural born killers, the doors, brazil). But not this one.

the sad thing really is however, that although alot of us here have a deeper level of empathy and know things in general deeper. this kind of thought towards this film I don't t hink is ll that common...I agree that it is a possible way to pointing out an issue thats happening here, now with tribal folk on this planet..will people make that connection...I kinda doubt it..its sad really..the pond is so very shallow and stagnant for the most part uhhhhggggg
even when its in thier faces in 3d they don't see

i've seen it five times now. twice in 3D, three times in imax 3D. all five times i sat in the best seats in the house (3/4 back, dead center).

this movie made me cry as hard on the fifth viewing as it did the first time. harder, actually.

the first time i watched this film, after it had ended, the guy immediately in front of me got up and said, "fuck man, that was a fucking long-ass fucking movie." i was so heartbroken hearing this. what have we become as a species? as a culture? granted- i don't expect everyone to think/feel like i do. i also live in hollywood, so everyone here is a self-proclaimed movie critic. however- there are a few things that should certainly be considered:

1. this movie took TWELVE years to flesh out. as in- every plant, tree, bug, creature, even the na'vi themselves were maticulously thought out. why they would look the way they did, how things would have evolved to be as they were.

2. everything that you saw with your eyes was CREATED by the infinite minds of humans. that creativity...that amazing ability to just think something so fantastical up and then manifest it in such a palpable, stunning way....i'm sorry but that very fact alone brings tears to my eyes. what we are capable of.....it's stupendous!!

3. the overall story was a simple one. but in truth, life is pretty simple. very simple when you think about what we, as humans, actually "need". crazy psychological twists and deep cerebral jackoff are the product and addiction of a the very same left-brain that is so simply depicted in archetype format in the movie. do you see how SO MANY people are touched and moved by this film? it touches on the basic things we ALL can relate to. saying you didn't like it because it wasn't "deep enough" for your staggering intellect is just a way for you to try to set yourself apart and stay separate from the whole of society. we have all become quite familiar with this need to preserve our ego and what better way than to set yourself apart from everyone else. either "i'm too smart" or "they're too simple". either way, both views keep you nice and insular. sad.

4. the archetypes. jake sully represents an "almost gone" part of ourselves. wounded, literally, and cut off from his "feelings". unable to "move" on his true heart's impulses. his awakening in his avatar body is like a breath of possibility being taken in. he is whole in body...but is it too late for his mind and heart?
the film keeps us guessing as we watch him walk the fine line of hope and hopeless. our very fate as humans are pinned on his actions from the minute he wiggles his big, blue toes. he is not enately "bad". the gradual decay of his society has left him with no skillset to even know what he's lost. he is, as natiri says, like a baby. his ignorance is displayed early on as the death of creatures we all identified to be "bad" are shown to be unnecessary and the result of a lack of awareness. immediately we identify even deeper with jake that we, too, have lost an ability to "see" that in nature, there is no "good and bad", there simply is a balance. we begin to see our connection to EVERYTHING.
when the seeds of the tree of souls land on him and cover him is when i first cried. the notion of being chosen by something so pure as still having a detectable trace of potential to not be completely lost....now we fully bond with the archetype of this character. he is us. there is hope. the most pure spirit has chosen us....us who have gone so far down the wrong road...from this point on, i just want him to awaken. i want us all to.

the other characters are all archetypes as well. very obvious and simple, but they need to be to drive the point of the story home clearly. so much symbolism and beauty. the creativity just gets more and more mesmerizing. when jake becomes a member of the omaticaya people and everyone puts their hands on eachother, radiating out into a giant interwoven synapse of union, i cried again. hard. he had done it. we had done it.

but waking up is sometimes not always the endgame. more than finally seeing where we need to return to, it is also crucial that we fight to prevent our most unawake self from resurfacing. the rest of the humans on Pandora represent this. they are the massive army of the mind, asleep to a destructive degree. they are the sleep that is unable to be awakened. consciousness will always be challenged when it is first wrested from the clutches of complacency. like a greedy child that won't part with a toy, the "too far gone" continue on their blind to life mission. we must now fight to hold on to what we've gained. this instills us, the viewers, with the true depth of awakening.

it is worth fighting for. it is worth dying for. the life that we just woke up from no longer is an option, but it IS a threat.

when sigorney weaver's character dies trying to transfer permanently into her avatar body, i'm sure EVERYONE (not just me) thought at the very same moment, "quick jake, YOU do this now!! make this change permanent NOW!!" to see it end with this was the most satisfying conclusion of the most satisfying movie experience i have ever had. this movie was beyond a movie for me. this was a life-changing experience. it was an IMPORTANT experience and the awareness that a record number of people (half of the population of this planet will wind up seeing this movie by the time it is done with dvd releases, etc.) have and will continue to see it fills me with hope that we are waking up.

infun- i honestly cannot believe that this movie did not at least stimulate your mind visually. to be bored by this movie is absolutely inconceivable to me....like.....it makes me want to cry to think that even ONE soul out there who saw it could be genuinely BORED by it????? i just don't know what to say to that....

if you haven't yet seen this movie, do it. immediately.

WITH LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!

my friend fell asleap durring the movie and kept complaining that he was getting tired and that it was too hot in the theatre..it was really annoying me..i couldnt figure out how he could sleep.

Antrocles- I shed tears too!

I do generally have good taste in film (in my own opinion of course!)... it was Hollywood, for sure, but it was made with genuine soul, and love, and good intentions, and that's what got me. Other films that made me cry... Schindler's List, Paris Texas, Barefoot Gen, The Green Mile, Milk, that's all I can think of right now, it's rare for a film to bring a man to tears.

*yawn*

The whole part you love so much about it, the story of how jakesully's lost soul is being safed or set free, is exactly where i find it lacks depth. Exactly that part is not being develloped at all in the movie. you don't see jake sully's internal struggle at all, except one moment when the general announces his plan. But then jake has already switched sides. You don't see anything of the proces where he switches sides. That's basically my whole point.

Maybe it was editted out of it. But if they would have shown thát, than the movie would have been more than great.

An example of a movie that does show the proces of mental and spiritual awakening is 'shadowlands', for instance.
There you see exactly what this movie misses.

i hear you and let me be quite clear that i admit all of avatar's shortcomings lie in it's incomplete portrayal of the process of transformation and all of the little things that would make a soul awaken so completely. that being said, i think that because of this very fact it puts all of those "moments" on US to imagine. you see this utopian culture and it's beauty. even though there is a serious lack of complete understanding of this civilation, there is enough in the simple fact that they are interacting symbiotically with nature to allow our own minds to conjur up the multitude of ways this could ripple out. i found myself having a massively broad understanding of the omiticaya that was based 90% on what my mind filled in to the gaps of the script. i think that the framework of a civilization in harmony with it's world is such an ideal that we, as whole-minded humans, truly WANT. It is MORE than enough to support the dreams that we all have inside our minds and hearts regarding this very topic.

in other words, avatar is really about YOU. it is beautiful, stunning, poignant and immersive...but what makes it so very special is that it activates a movie we have all been scripting in our own hearts since we first became awakened to the plight of humanity and the world as a whole.

as ridiculous as this is becoming, i'm actually about to leave to meet Uncle Knucles at the local imax theatre to see it AGAIN! it'll be his first time...and my SIXTH. i am more excited to see it each time i go. this movie speaks to me. through archetypes and spectacularly creative imagery, it is the story of a hope for humanity that has been playing on the big screen of my heart for at least 25 years now. it sets the foundation for all human transcendence...the very phrase every soul longs to feel deep within...

"i see you."

WITH LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!

It is a beautyfull movie indeed. Maybe i should see it again.

let me know when...i'll come with you!

L&G!!

nice

I think what pulls us in here is-- and I'll admit for me, this has to be one of the most ego driven fantasies-- is simply the ultimate vision of the taking of a fresh body (rebirth/conscious reincarnation). Who doesn't at least entertain that subconsciously once in a while...? IT also relates to the "miracle"; the blind seeing the disease cured etc... AND another thing; the idea of this widespread viewing-- it really reminds me that cinema may potentially may be the most powerful message delivering form of media that exists. I think this thought provides hope for collective transformation. It is so inspiring to see a (trend?) mass media excepted form of entertainment seem to be weaving through the controller's darkness keep us asleep protocol Of course I realize I'm getting a little carried away here. But hey it was a great day coming back from the theater. And thanks for giving a voice to some of the feelings I was having. I wish I felt safer crying where I was, because I'm sure I would have let the streams flow instead of try to control them. Everyone needs a good cry IMHO...

How Archetypal !

I guess I must be the only one here that did NOT like this movie

dont get me wrong, the effects are nice, there is some trippyness in the nature and landscapes and animals (fluorescent mushrooms and so on)

there is also a shamanistic aspect to it, the people living sort of together with nature.. but thats it

its a totally typical predictable hollywood story, the personified good people vs the bad people, mixed with little romance of alien girl with human guy... also the characters lack any depth.. Also for being 'in tune' with nature, the na'vi are way too human for my taste (like the jealous one when the hero takes the girl, etc)

but the worse for me: This is one of (or THE) most expensive film ever.. It has a certain criticism against destruction of nature, but its a fake criticism IMO.. How many millions are they getting from the box offices already? Now answer me, are they reverting a significant amount of this money for compensating their CO2 emissions for the production of the film, or the energy spent, or for really saving nature like they pretend the message of the movie is? Nah, its just the rich hollywood people getting richer (with my money, bastards! I want it back) while entertaining others with their fake criticism in this time where talking about nature saving is fashionable.

Not only that but, its made in a way that people watch the movie and feel self-righteous and are satisfied with their pseudo-revolt against 'bad' humans destroying nature.. but its not a movie that makes one think how each person has inside of themselves the good and the bad, and how each one in their own actions can destroy nature or help saving it.. Its rather like,  making a stereotype american army general enemy, that everybody can be angry against, like a scape-goat, but then people go out of movies and dont think of themselves, they go smoke their cigarretes and throw the butt on the floor or whatever, you know?

nah, not for me...

I heard from Survival Internatinal that Tribal people have been asking Cameron for some donations to help them from the profits, and if he hasn't done so that's a little sad... but then I doubt it's his money to give, it goes to the investors surely, who expect their return on their investment to make up for all the flops they invest in? Would you rather that the movie just wasn't made at all? I don't begrudge them taking the money when they can to cover the times that they lose out, it all depends on how much they end up making over their careers and that we cannot tell even if we had their current bank balances under our noses right now... it's up to them to follow their consciences here. I'm not going to boycott a film just because people made a good one and made money from it.

I kind of agree with your latter criticism about how it externalises the evil, but only because of how oversimplified the film was with regard to goodies vs baddies. It would have been good if your point about our personal responsibilities was made clearer in the film. But then, doesn't Jake Scully make a stand against his own 'people' to do what is right, and is helped by other squaddies and the scientists, isn't that a message of taking responsibility for one's own actions even when only a small cog in a sick society?

It was a simplistic film typical of Hollywood, who think the masses are too 'stupid' to get it otherwise (maybe they are, or maybe it's just the Hollywood people who are stupid?! ), but still I think it was better than nothing. Maybe a mass audience still stuck in the conditioning of their own Westernised culture wouldn't have been able to sympathise with the tribal people due to their cultural differences if the tribal people weren't given the absolute moral highground? Do you really think it would be better if the investors had chosen to make a different film instead... maybe another one about Britney Spears drinking bottles of mineral water while driving an SUV across America with the typical bogus message that every single person in the world could be rich and consume so conspicuously if only we weren't so 'lazy' and 'followed our dreams'?!