Yes your brew looks closer to a solid light blue...the other picture closer to turquoise...

Mine is closer to turquoise...but im only using a pinch of seed [about one half gram] in alcohol...

And also i did not apply enough heat to pop the seed yet... im using a microwave in my test...

Im going to leave it in the microwave till the seeds pop or start smoking lightly..

Then see if the color changes closer to blue...

a microwave might be too rough on the seed? not shure//

So great that this really 'lo-tech' process is getting more attention!

Good to se your photos of the different shades of blue. If I would have said something without first reading that is 'should' be blue, I would have said that my brews are turquoise.

But regarding how much that tells about the ratio Harmaline/Harmine, or for that sake the effects on you, I don't know. I have only roared one batch (50g of witch I right now are doing an extraction).

But holy moly, harmine really is strange. I want to write something about my last journey with dark roasted rue yesterday but first there is a caveat.
Every time I've taken dark roasted rue brews, it's also been the first trips on newly extracted DMT from a new source. I have also not tried this DMT without the dark roasted rue.
(the source is the same plant MHRB but from two different vendors and countries of origin of the plant)
So my experiences can also be affected by this...

Anyhow.
Yesterday I wanted to see how it was if I took almost my usual oral dose of my extracted Harmaline/Harmine mix (don't know the ratio) and how little dark roasted rue I could take and still notice the clearheaded-ness of a Harmine+DMT trip.
So I brewed 1 g of ground Dark Roasted Rue (DRR) with a pinch of citric acid and took that with 140mg of the mixed extract (I normally take 200mg). Waited 2h and then took 20mg DMT (*3).
Well... Wow! ... and Wow?
As I just wrote, I don't know if it the different DMT (anyone knows if DMT extracted from what is labeled and looks like MHRB can be really different?) or if this DRR-brews are really potent. This trip(s) was also remarkable different that from what I'm used to. So clear-headed and ... really weird. None of the usual patterns and textures (OEV and CEV), the sounds, the places, the 'high' and feeling out of ones head and especially none of the strong emotional response. Just really here, open eyed, with normal awareness.. but in a strongly altered and expanded reality.
I'm amazed that I can be so clear-headed, to really look around and move a bit, and to somehow reason with my self about what I'm experiencing. But what I see/experience is sooooo far out. It's not the places of 'high-weirdness' that DMT normally can open up for, no this is in our consensus reality of everyday, witch makes it, for me at least, somehow more confusing and strange.

The first of the three * 20mg took me most by surprise. My room got duplicated, like in a half-transparent mirror, copies of the place were stacked but centered around the middle of the room. Then I know that this connected other times and places, that this was simultaneously happening somewhere else, and that we shared an eternal now. This kept going for a bit longer then what I'm used to in the dream-like states that normally happens to me when taking mixed harmalas and vaped DMT. It was really strange and my sense of size and proportions were very .. different so to say. But I always were present and in the room.

This was not meant to be a trip-report but what I want is to share my experiences of DRR and Harmine-dominent DMT trips and hear what experiences other folks might have. For me this is really another trip.
DRR compared to what I'm used to (the extracted Harmaline/Harmine mix) I can characterize the mix as if your consciousness are going into your dreaming mind for a tour, with strong emotions (love, fear, sorrow, happiness etc.) and strange places. And DRR as if its going to a higher reality, wide awake.

My o my, how to integrate this

I set microwave on [high] 12 to 15 minutes .. the glass was very hot...but none of the seed popped or visibly smoked in the micro during that amount of time...

I even crushed the seed and observed no smoke...a tough little seed! ....

still the same [turquoise] color mixed in white vinegar...alcohol ...or water?/

I just wanted to update with my final thoughts on roasted vs. unroasted Rue after road testing the roasted today:

Roasted Rue is the equivalent of a clear sativa, and unroasted is like a nice couch locking indica

I hands-down prefer unroasted for lasting pain relief throughout the day, but can't bear the thought of ingesting enough unroasted for a full anahuasca experience, both due to taste and bodyload. So roasted for hyperspace travels, and unroasted in place of advil it is.

Thanks for this update. It helps with my forthcoming decision to revisit unroasted rue for pain relief.

So now I've make a crude extraction of 30g dark roasted rue (DRR). I ground the seeds coarsely in a manual coffee grinder and simmered it two times on low temp with 200 ml water and ~2,5g + 1g citric acid. Combined the boils and strained + filtered through cotton ball.

Precipitate the alkaloids with Sodium carbonate and put in fridge over night.

Filter through coffee filter. Wash with cold water until neutral (did not test ph). Dried the brown powder.

I got around 0.76 g from 30g. That is about 2,5%. Seems to be a lot for only being Harmine? But I did not make a manske so perhaps there are other things in it to.

I wanted to get a more crude extract without manske to see how that feels. Will also make this with unroasted.

The boils and washed alk. water had a really nice bluish glow to it under UV.

Seems about right Murklan, a crude freebased extract will precipitate the Harmine and background compounds which makes it a full spectrum extract, my fav, compared to the Manske'd extract which would just be pure Harmala HCL extract, or in this case, a Manske should yield a pure Harmine HCL extract.

The weight also seems to be what one would expect. Personally when i do full spectrum extractions on raw Rue, i get back about 4 to 4.5 grams or so of freebased extract (after a few purifications) from 100 grams of raw seed. So if you were to do an extraction on 90 to 100 grams of this dark roast, going by the math of 0.76 per 30 grams, one should get about 2.2 to 2.5 grams of extract which imo ain't bad at all, also shows that the Harmaline content does seem to have been broken down during the roasting.

Good to know the liquid glowed blue though.

It would be interesting to know what the raw alkaloid balance of this batch might have been. If this seems like a high figure for the harmine post-roasting, it could be an indication that at least some of the harmaline thermally dehydrogenates to harmine (likely courtesy of a hydrogen acceptor molecule). The dehydrogenation reaction is thermodynamically favourable, after all - the double bond which forms can conjugate into an aromatic system.

Ah, good to know! I've always done a few manske's on my rue extractions but glad to hear that you like the crude extract. Will try that out. But as I've reported, I find the trips with this roasted brews to be really different.



You lost me at 'dehydrogenates' But I too would like to know the raw alkaloid balance. I don't have a good ph-meter (mine el-cheapo seems to be broken now) and I guess it's hard to do a separation without one.

So, I hate to be contrary, but... I roasted 4 ounces rue until black on my stovetop, until seeds stopped popping. Smelled like slightly overdone popcorn. Continued on with my usual three acetic boils, base with NaOH, dissolve in acetic water then manske.

Yielded 3.75 grams of gold harmala HCL. Glow in UV is the standard bright neon green I am accustomed to seeing from extracting rue.

Suppose I will get around to gathering a ph meter and some ammonia.

Well that sucks Tony, did you roast 4 ounces of Rue at once, or did you separate it into smaller batches? I'd say try processing 100 grams in four 25 gram batches maybe? At least that's my plan when i go at it. Also keep in mind that with larger quantities being processed, if there's trace amounts of Harmaline, it'll likely concentrate it and give things more of the neon green glow, i'd imagine. Also you may consider letting it roast slightly longer than when all the seeds stop popping, at least ime with the blacklight fluorescence, the longer/darker the roast, it's got a bit of a fainter blue glue, which may be worth pursuing to see if any traces of Harmaline remain then or not.

After doing quite a good bit of dark roasts over the last almost couple months, it can be a bit variable depending on the roasting, so imo it's worth experimenting around a few times with temp and time.

Although i will say, it'd be a shame if this dark roasting thing doesn't get rid of all traces of Harmaline, but as far as effects go and how clean/clear it feels and how much like Harmine it feels and doesn't feel like Harmaline, i'm perfectly fine with this dark roast seed or even a dark roast-derived extract.

But i shall try my hand at extraction hopefully in the coming days, i've been pretty busy lately so haven't had time to extract. I'll probably try to do a few different batches during roasting and see if there's any difference in result.

With all that said though, yesterday i tried mixing 150mgs of THH with my dark roast Rue, and it felt a lot more like Caapi but still with a Rue overtone/"flavor", it was nice, but i think 150mgs of THH is perhaps a little too much for me, next time i try it i'll probably go down to about 100mgs, or 120mgs maybe. Worth checking out though imo.

But, it is worth noting though, each time i drink a dose of my dark roast Rue, my tongue is really blue under blacklight, it's definitely not green. Also i've noticed there's never any green on my skin anymore, when using the dark roast, whereas if processing raw seed my hands will definitely glow, that green glow goes everywhere. So there's no question that Harmaline is broken down and Harmine remains, at least in the batches i've done. Now when it comes to bulk processing, i shall find that out soon i guess, but i'm hoping it'll give me the blue, and i have a feeling it will, but we shall see.

Shucks, was worth a try!! And I have some nice spun gold to capsule up and add to my medicine kit. I will try this again with a much smaller amount (a dose IE 3 to 5 grams) and see if I have any different results.

Finally got around to test the crude extract I wrote about in post in this post.

I took 125mg of the, supposed, freebase harmine. That would be about 5g of the dark roasted seeds. It's a medium dark powder that I mixed with water and swallowed. Almost no taste, none of the bitterness that I'm use to with the full HCL extract that I usually take.

I after about 2,5h I could feel something, some stimulation and my hands were a bit shaky (note to self, measure up the DMT before ). I then prepared my usual setting in my home. Meditate for a bit, music and low warm lights.

The experiences were what I now know as a hamine DMT trip. Very clear headed with normal reasoning and mental capabilities... well, with that I mean that it's 'clear' and 'reason' compared to my experiences with harmaline in the mix. I feel that it's quite delusional, that I don't get to the really wild DMT world with visions and emotions and deeper personal resonance. It feels very much external. If I with harmaline feels that I'm awakening my dreaming mind or subconscious this is very much the awakened brain.

But still. With enough DMT I also got to a HD room with blinking lights and strange geometries, but a lot more calm and less engaging.

I feel that this can be useful for some people that have difficult to handle the emotions and 'wild' side of DMT. But for me, I get a lot from those parts.

So. I will continue experimenting with proportions and hopefully also soon with a THH-reduction.

Thank you all!

When I roast rue it's only in an amount that makes a single layer of seeds - and they go into the pan when it's already scorching hot (heat 7/9 on my stove dial while I check the seeds for stones and other foreign material). They start popping immediately and I stir, toss and shake the pan to keep the heat evenly distributed. Hopefully this gets the seeds toasted pretty evenly. With this method all the popping gets done within a couple of minutes. The resulting brew is blue without a hint of green.

The seeds pop quite quickly so in principle multiple small batches should ensure efficient roasting of a larger amount of seeds within a fairly acceptable time span.

I'd be interested to know if following this method and then doing the extraction that you outlined would result in a product with a blue glow.

Yesterday i started my extraction process on two 100 gram batches of dark roast, gonna try to finish it up today, yesterday was brewing/concentrating, today is actual extraction.

Both 100 gram batches were roasted in 25 gram portions just to make sure things were "proper". When brewing them up, i was a little concerned because the the first boil, while not Harmaline green, was a bit "greenish", more like turquoise, but as the boils were combined and the brews reduced down, it definitely is more of a blue color fluorescence-wise.

Also, the first batch of 100 grams was roasted halfway between the 5 and 6 setting on the stove, while the second batch was roasted at 7, and both batches were roasted until seeds were all black and all popped, the second batch also produced a cleaner looking tea than the first batch.

I also noticed that when i added some vinegar to the concentrated brews, the blue glow became a bit more pronounced. I've taken pictures already of the concentrated brews with and without vinegar, gonna try to get some more pictures during the actual extraction.

So far indications are looking good. It's also worth noting that during brewing and filtering and concentrating, there was no green fluorescent glow on my hands/skin, i did have some faint blue fluorescence on my hands though, but quite a difference compared to processing raw seed. I'll update further as the process rolls along.

Great! Nice to see and hear from your extraction! I stopped at a acid to base extraction, will you do one/some manske?

Sounds good about the color on your hands. I've just done a raw rue extraction and like someone here in the forum wrote, it looks like a rave has vomited in my kitchen

I'll likely do a Manske at some point in the next few days when i whip up another batch.

However, i seem to have run into a conundrum, i did exactly as i do with my usual Rue extractions, i boiled up the seed really well, strained/filtered each boil, reduced/concentrated the brew down, added a little bit of vinegar (usually like 75mls to 100mls), then added 40 grams (20 grams per 400mls of brew) of washing soda in 100mls of water and added the washing soda water to the brew, nothing happened, no color change like i'm used to with the raw brews, no noticeable precipitation, but the color of the brew is pretty dark and can't even really see through it, and the concentrated brew had some residual black gunk in it so it was hard to see if anything at all was happening. This happened with both batches of brew. So i filtered the 2nd batch of brew (sat the first batch of brew aside for now), dissolved the stuff in the filter into some fresh warm vinegar water, re-filtered, and then re-based, a very slight something seemed to have precipitated during this clean up step, but then it disappeared and now it just looks like straight liquid again. So idk what's going on here.

Good news though is that everything up to this point has had a blue glow, including the a/b. So i guess my next step is to figure out what happened or what went wrong, or to just straight up try the Manske method. I'm puzzled, makes me wonder if the roasting process is somehow changing something within the seed that causes the Harmine not to precipitate? Or could it perhaps be something to do with the seed oils? So far, i was a bit hyped, now i'm a bit disappointed, however, at least the dark roast seed tea itself works, but as for a full spectrum a/b extraction, i'm a bit stumped at the moment. Anyone have any suggestions or perhaps any idea as to what's going on?

Update - I had started with the 2nd brew, and idk what may have went wrong with that (could even be something like reduced potency maybe due to the higher temp?), but i just got around to continuing the a/b on the 1st brew, and after dissolving everything that was filtered off after the first basing into fresh vinegar water, and then re-filtering and re-basing, again, nothing appeared to happen. So i got a little annoyed and just wanted to make sure everything was definitely being based, so i just tossed in a bit of plain sodium carbonate into the liquid and stirred around a good bit, next thing i know something appears to be crashing out/precipitating, it started off as tiny little particles and then those particles i guess came together to form bigger particles, there's also a few what look like white veiny/hair strand-like things forming. I guess i'll wait for everything to settle before filtering it off and seeing what i might have. But, so far, all liquid has been blue.

I've noticed there seems to be some sort of oily layer on top of the based liquid especially, not sure if that has anything to do with the apparent difficulty in precipitation, but randomly i got the idea to blow on the liquid and cause the oil and such to spin around and that may? be helping to precipitate things, or maybe helping things move along? idk.

At this point, i'm hoping, i'll get some full spectrum extract from this 1st batch, and while it appears like it's extract precipitating, i did toss in some straight washing soda powder into the liquid after the initial basing but it wasn't too much that i added and the liquid volume is like about 900mls so i'd think the washing soda should've dissolved, so this should be extract. I guess we'll see.

But this reminds me of something i read on here awhile back when first getting into my Rue and Caapi extractions, and someone said something about with a Caapi brew, needing to stir more and agitate the liquid to precipitate out the extract. So idk, maybe that's what's going on here? Any insight or ideas would be appreciated.

That is strange, frustrating but interesting. My dark roasted rue extraction went fine, as I wrote about earlier. No big difference then a normal raw seed extraction. But a smaller yield.
I don't know what you could do now. Base more?

I've also had a really strange experience yesterday with my normal raw seed extraction. I've done 10+ in a similar way and never had this happen. I did the usual boiling of seeds (with the exception that I grinded the seeds more then I'm use to) with some citric acid, did not reduce. Strained and based with Sodium carbonate. Put it in the fridge for a day and strained again. I felt like there were not so much as I'm use to (but more on material later) and so I asked here in another thread if I could base more by adding sodium hydroxide. So I did and put in the fridge another day.

The freebase I got from the first basing I dissolved in warm water and citric acid and put a side on room temp, wanting to combine it with the second basing. Then I was away for the day. It's winter here and the temp in my home went down to around 10°C (50°F) and this might have affected the brews. When checking the jars I noticed that in the acid brew it had formed rock hard dark brown lumps/stones. Looked like something from a cave, a bit crystal in structure. I've never seen this and thought that I needed to re-dissolve them to be able to make a manske. I heated the liquid, added a bit more water + citric acid. But no. I grinded then with a spoon and stirred a lot while heating in a ht water bath. Some of it really dissolved but they left quite a lot of gray material, like sand. I strained and tried to dissolve this in hot water and acid but nothing happened. Looked cyan in UV-light.

The re-dissolved stones are now in a manske waiting to be filtered.

The second base behaved strangely. It formed only a 'mud' that slowly settled in the lower half of the bottle. I tried to filter it out but it took long time and didn't make much.

I wonder what made this extraction so different? I didn't use distilled water, have own water from a well. Sorry if this is besides the tread about roasted rue.