DownwardsFromZero got me thinkin', so i tried my hand at it tonight, currently in the 4th hour of this dark roast Rue tea. Basically and simply put, by roasting Syrian Rue seed to a dark roast, the Harmaline content of the Rue seemingly either breaks down, or converts to Harmine, i think it breaks down, because if it were converting to Harmine, the Harmine content would get stronger, but i don't think that's what's going on, i think Harmaline is simply breaking down due to the roasting process. So the resulting dark roast Rue, is devoid of Harmaline content, making for a Harmine-dominant Rue brew (that glows blue instead of green), different from the usual Harmaline-dominant (but also with good amounts of Harmine) raw green glowing Rue brew that we'd usually get.

I've roasted Rue seed before many times (thanks to those who've talked about it, and who had gotten me talking about it) but i usually always did a light roast, and so i had some extra light roast powder in a bag tucked away in a drawer that i decided to try first. Weighed out 5 grams of this light roast, brewed it up, it glowed green, dang!

So, i did the dark roast, 5 grams of raw Rue seed in a stainless steel pan on the stove at medium to medium high heat, let all the seeds pop (while swirling them around to make sure they're all evenly coated), even left it on the heat for an extra minute or two after they all popped just to be sure (all in all took about 10 to 12 minutes). At first i thought i burned them a little bit, but turns out, it was just fine. Brewed it up, checked the fluorescence... and there she was, the Blue. Oh Harmine, so precious. Although, towards the end there when concentrating it down to a drinkable amount (which ended up being a little over a cup, but maybe not a full 2 cups) i noticed this precipitate forming/coming out, idk if it's tannins or what, but i didn't bother filtering them out (although i probably could've, i just didn't know what it was/is) and just stirred the tea to get it all spread out again as i was drinking it.

And much to my surprise, a pretty dang clean tea (though that could've been due to it being whole seed, compared to the powdered seed of the light roast, even so though, i feel like the dark roast would be clean, idk), and not only that, but i'll be damned, it was extremely drinkable, like no joke, we all know how foul Rue can be (though one shouldn't let such foulness obscure the awesomeness of the Rue), but this was extremely drinkable, though i did add some sugar for sweetness, but no problemo on the palate. Had this slight almost plastic-like taste to it, in a way.

This dark roast is definitely Harmine-dominant, seemingly devoid of Harmaline, i know Rue/Harmalas very well (SS/Sabnock here), and i could tell the difference right away, and it feels much better compared to my prior experiences with light roasted Rue. This changes things man, not only has it opened me up to a side of the Rue i haven't really experienced before (in all the work i've done with it), but also has opened me up to Rue tea, because i'm usually a capsule guy for my Rue/Harmalas, but this dark roast definitely changes things.

As for the dosage, i went with 5 grams because i didn't wanna go light, i wanted to make sure i felt it, and surprisingly, not bad at all. 5 grams of raw seed would've floored me big time, 5 grams of dark roast on the other hand, strong, but very gentle (although that could've also had to do with the fact that it took me about 10 minutes to drink the tea, so i sipped it, so that may have made it kick in smoother, like it does with Acacia/Mimosa teas), no discomfort (maybe some very slight gut funkiness but easily ignorable), very physically relaxing and clearheaded, pretty functional, and different body feel compared to the raw seed. I say go for the 5 grams, don't be afraid, 3 grams may be a bit too light, perhaps, 5 grams is golden, to me anyways, so far. Go for the 5 grams lol (of dark roast). Makes me wonder how high up on the dosage we can go with this, i wonder how 7 to 10 grams or so would be.

DownwardsFromZero mentioned about how there should be a thread about this, so i guess i'll kickstart it lol. I just wanna say, thanks to DFZ and all the others who have been spreading awareness about roasted Rue, myself included, and i hope that more people will experiment with this and see how it goes for them. It would also be nice to have some Nexian analysis done on the dark roast, if possible, so we can see what all we're workin' with here.

Do you think dark roasted rue devoid of harmaline provides enough MAOI for oral DMT?

I have had some unsuccessful attempts at this, but the problem may have been in brewing rather than roasting.

Of course this would be easy to test. It's just that using yourself as a guinea pig is a bit taxing at times 😄

I am very much interested in this topic. I love rue juice. Just had a 2.5g shot last night and chilled at the kava bar with the pup and the wife. Even as is, I love the stuff, but I am curious as to the effect of the roasted rue in lemon juice. I prefer to just take a shot and be done with it.

I don't see why it wouldn't be enough of an MAOI, i mean it still has Harmine in it, to me 5 grams of the dark roast seems like it'd be enough of an MAOI. I haven't taken DMT in like 6 years so i can't really speak on that, but the Rue was definitely active last night so i see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Proper brewing is important of course, not enough and you don't get all the goods.

As far as Harmine goes from last night's dark roast, it seemed rather strong but gentle, i would say felt close to like 180 to 200mgs of Harmine or so, but i can't be sure. Overall it was very nice though, none of the uneasy/uncomfortable feelings i usually get from Rue.

Yeah idk about the Lemon juice, never used it, i don't like making things acidic if i can help it. As for the shot, that's my plans in the time to come, to dark roast a big bulk batch and make a bulk tea out of it making each dose about a shot's worth of liquid and can then dilute if need be. I also plan on trying extractions at some point on this dark roast, both full spectrum and a manske extraction, it'll be interesting to see if i can end up with just pure Harmine (via the manske) without the need for separating Harmine from Harmaline (since Harmaline wouldn't be there).

Also, if, like me, you actually like some Harmaline, you could probably mix dark roast and raw seeds together and have a more Harmine-dominant (but still with some Harmaline) Rue brew.

So now I have something to report back!

I wrote in your post on the Ayahuasca subReddit but like it better here on the Nexus so that's why.

I did a test yesterday and wow.... that was different, in a different way.

I roasted ~50g of rue seeds, mid-high temperature for about 11 minutes. I thought that I would stop when all seeds had popped but they seemed to go on forever so I stopped before burning. My small home was full of fumes (and breathing it might actually have some effects) and a quite nice but strange smell. I then simmered 4g of the seeds in 400ml water for 30 minutes. I found it difficult to get the seeds to not just float so I tried stirring from time to time. Then reducing it down to about 70ml and drank it in about 10 min. I checked the brew with a UV-lamp and it was not really just blue, but more like cyan. Different from the normal Harmine/Harmaline I take.

Quite bitter but ok. I like coffee and this was in that kind of a drink.

I went on preparing the place, cleaning and arranging a place to meditate and lay down. As I usually do. After about 1,5h hours I could start feeling something and when I sat down, closing my eyes and listening to some calm music I could feel a bit of the body buzz that I normally get when taking Harmalas. I usually take ~200mg of my extracted (double mansked) harmalas before DMT and the feeling from this toasted rue tea was not as strong and a bit different. Somehow a less sharp buzz.

After staying still some time, and around 2h after drinking the brew I got on to vape the first of my 4 prepared pads with DMT in the Glass Bat Vaporgenie. the first one being ~17mg, the others 20-28mg. I wont write down the actual trip, or trips, now but just want to share how I felt that this was different than from what I'm use to with the extract of both Harmine and Harmaline.

As I wrote, this was different. DMT is almost always different and so was this. I felt totally clear minded, even more than normally. After some thoughts regarding big themes and ideas, personal and relational topics (with I usually have on harmalas/DMT) I got to where I was just very present, in this room, in this moment. There ware some really remarkable times when the music stopped and I just stared out into the room. Not much visual (subdued colors, shadows merging into a net) but just this total clarity.

I've never felt to sober and so affected at the same time before. Wow! I have not experimented with isolated Harmine or Harmaline, nor have I taked rue as a tea before. But I felt no nausea at all.

I think I'll go up to 5g next time, but I also want to try to get a bit of THH in there (if I manage to get a magnesium reduction done).

Thank you for the post and keep up the good/gods work!

EDIT: I might add that I did get MAOI from this, especially after 3-4h from intake. ~20mg DMT lasted for 30-40 min and a long afterglow... but as I wrote the whole exerience was very cler headed.

Good to hear you had some positive results. One thing to keep in mind is that when roasting larger amounts it may be harder to properly roast all of the seed, i'm not sure as i haven't tried bigger batches yet, just done up to 10 grams so far. The roasting process definitely gives off smoke, especially with 10 grams, so i can imagine 50 grams being pretty smokey lol, might wanna try to do it near an exhaust fan, if possible. But yeah, it can look more cyan, however that could be due to the presence of trace amounts of Harmaline, possibly, idk. I know from experience so far that depending on how well it's roasted, the Harmaline could be completely gone or there could still be small amounts left, like with the light roast for example. With dark roast, i don't detect any noticeable Harmaline effects, it pretty much feels like Harmine with the background compounds which seem to aid in body relaxation, feels better to me than pure Harmine.

I roasted 10 grams a couple days ago and split it into two 5 gram doses, and so far the teas haven't been bitter at all for me, but i add some sugar to mine and drink while warm/hot, tastes pretty much as good as sweet tea to me, big change up from how raw Rue tea tastes lol.

I do so far find the dark roast to be much more clean/clear compared to the raw seed, due to the lack of Harmaline.

Great that this thread's up and running. Better than relying on my flakiness!

It's hard to imagine how one might roast much more than a few grams evenly, other than if one had a rotating drum for roasting coffee. Constant stirring with a spatula might just do it if we're in the one ounce range.

Another thing that interests me is if we can capture the vapours for analysis - there is sure to be some alkaloid content there and I wonder if it's harmine, harmaline or both, or something else. This would be a dry distillation [yet another thing to add to my to do list]. I do like to waft the vapours in my direction when roasting rue.


D. M. Turner did note that it's possible to achieve effects by smoking rue seeds in a pipe so it should not be too surprising to find some active alkaloids in the roasting vapours.

Yes, that was my thinking too. So I took a big cast iron frying pan and shook and stirred for the most time. Cant' say how well it went but I'll do and extraction + manske of the rest soon and see how that turns out.



I'm not so experiences with discerning the differences of Harmine and Harmaline yet. But this did feel different in many ways. but as I wrote it's also the first time I take a rue tea.



Yes, it was really clear. And no nausea. Will try 5g next time. But I somehow missed something, a depth and emotional connection perhaps.



Yes this is interesting. I don't have the equipment for dry distillation and I'm careful trying to inhale a lot of something that I don't know the effects of. Some seeds in a pipe is one thing, 50g vapors another But I have a dynavapedry herb vaporizer that might do the trick for bioassay.

I can now confirm that this does provide enough MAOI for oral DMT.

Used 6 g of roasted seeds, grinded, boiled for some 5-10 minutes, drank. Then went for mimosa. I used the capsulated lemon essential oil and a hint of weed. Very little nausea on the come up and then none.

Hell yeah, so how was it?

Very sober. I did work on purpose on some of my fears, like ending up a loser. I just conjured up the image and accepted it. Then I began working on what is important to me and what are the small steps I could take to do more of that. Hard work, but it's incredible that such a tool exists.

Vaped some DMT-ecig juice on top of that while walking in the woods later in the evening.

Good to hear it went well. Btw, no matter what you've done, no matter what you're doing or not doing, i don't think you're a loser. It's who we are, deep down, that truly matters, imo, so long as one isn't a piece of shit, they're fine in my book lol. So be honest with yourself, but take it easy on yourself, we beat ourselves up about a lot, we gotta try to rise above the bullshit.

Just wanna note, i got me a 20 gram dark roasted Rue brew brewing at the moment, everything so far looks good, the color of the tea, the smell of the tea, the look of the seed, and the blue fluorescence. So we'll see how it goes when everything is done and i try a dose tonight. So far it seems like 20 grams at one time does alright when being roasted. Just keep in mind, the more seed you use, the more smoke will be given off during the roasting process, so you might wanna open a window or something and vent it out lol, or let it fumigate the place lol.

Yeah, that's what I believe too. It's just that if you run away from suffering, your fears will come to you when you are weak. DMT provides a way to see those fears for what they are worth, surrender yourself to the suffering that comes with life and then, when you are not ruled by your fears, you get to do more of the good.

^ indeed. You should definitely try to work through any fears or unconscious crap as best as you can, i've noticed fears coming to me while weak too, i try to work through it all though and try to maintain a positive mindset.

Wisdom, care and novel brews of rue. Side by side.

One reason to why I love this forum

Just wanna give a quick update on my 20 grams dark roasted Rue brew, got it all brewed up and concentrated down to 400mls total, so 100mls for a 5 gram dose. Gonna drink a dose of it here soon, will give another update later tonight on how it goes. So far everything appears to be good though, blue glow, i love it lol.

How did I miss this? Still a lot more to read, but I going to try this very soon. Thank you everyone for your contributions.

A thought occurred to me. I guess more of a question: If harmaline is being converted to harmine due to the roasting process, then if an extraction is performed on those roasted seeds, will the product be primarily harmine?

One love

Well i don't think Harmaline is converting to Harmine, that would be nice though. But if that was the case, the Harmine content of the Rue would get stronger, and that difference in potency, i would think, should be noticeable. But as far as i can tell, i don't feel like the Harmine content of the Rue is any stronger.

As for an extraction, my thoughts exactly. If you can whip up a batch of like 100 grams of dark roasted seed, you should be able to extract from it with washing soda for a Harmine-dominant full spectrum extract which should be devoid of Harmaline, or if doing a manske then just the Harmine HCL should precipitate. I'm going to get around to this eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later, but the extraction should do just fine.