I also liked guayusa more than coffee or tea, but it doesn't grow here.

Thanks for the cucumber juice tip, I have to try it

I've just spent a week away from the Nexus being busy in the garden and enjoying the local outdoor pool, thanks partly to taking up the practice of having a morning cup of coffee again. I'd stopped because of a daily dose of Syrian rue but once I stopped the rue my productivity tailed off and I wanted to see how things went without caffeine. I had a week or so of green tea but it didn't really cut the mustard. Coffee wins - subject to ongoing review. The main thing for me to be strict about is avoiding the escalation of habitual doses.

I'll be looking at having scheduled days off from the coffee - perhaps Sundays, where in my location there's a societal impetus too do less stuff anyhow.

Thanks for the further viewpoints on Pollan; it's clear how he's a popular food/plants author who thought that would give him licence to stray into the field of psychoactives without having the solid background to pull it off convincingly.

My "coffee substitute" is Elaeagnus bark. From the perspective of beta carbolines, it is like the practical outer world oriented version of rue (which is exceedingly inner and theoretical for me). Just 1g is quite effective for me. Though it brings with it a heightened sensitivity so it's not suited for chaotic or crowded environments. For getting work done alone, it is perfect...

I've seen you mention this plant before, and it sounds really interesting. However, it doesn't seem to be commonly available online, and I'm not sure if it grows in my area..

I've run into a lot of problems, over time, of using coca or caffeine while working in the mental health field, and being overly sensitive to the stress of that kind of work because of the added stimulation in my body.

Lately, I've been using a few drops of celastrus seed oil with a bit of suma root, in combination with small amounts of black tea and guayusa. If I keep everything at a moderate level and supplement with some vaporized cannabis, I can stay calmly energized throughout the day. However, it's a bit of balancing act, and if I don't get enough sleep and overdo it on any of the stimulating components (celastrus, suma, caffeine) I can easily lose my balance and get into a fight or flight state of mind.

I'm curious if you have any recommendations for commonly available herbs that can be energizing while promoting social connection and inner balance. Most common adaptogens don't work well for me, and I prefer to avoid microdosing psychedelics, but imagine that there's got to be some plants out there that I've never heard of or tried, despite lots of experimentation over the years.

You've probably heard of ashwaganda, broadly available, it does not let my heard run (and allows for resting if necessary, it wont stand in the way of taking a powernap) and it has a calming effect but with a motivator to do something, I just wanna do things, puts me in a creative modus.

Hey ommani, I have not heard of Elaeagnus bark being sold by online vendors. If you are in the new world, Autumn olive might be in reach.

European Mistletoe is sold, and despite not being a stimulant, I find it to be a good energizer and sometimes I combine it with with elaeagnus sometimes to get a pseudo mescaline effect (again, not stimulating but energizing and giving power over the practical world). In fact mistletoe is relaxing...

Some species of Artemisia are also used against fatigue and give a clarity of mind.

Finally, Ephedra is a stimulant. I have minimal experience with the local species E. distachya and I don't know how well balanced it's effect is.

Sometimes when I feel lacking of energy I mix ashwagandha, maca powder, tulsi and lion's mane together, pour hot water and add honey. It's hard to tell what the effects are but at least it's better than drowning yourself in coffee. I take this a couple of days in a row.

Do you filter it at all? If you don't, what is the consistency like?

I don't filter it, just add the hot water to the mix and let it sit for a while. I use a lot of honey 🙂 Ashwagandha tastes bad, but lion's mane is okayish and tulsi adds flavor. Maca powder is neutral, I think. It all dissolves in water quite nicely so you just pour it down. As a kid I used to think that if it's healthy it must have a bad taste, so I think there is some good placebo in the mix too. 😉

When I was still a trainer in a gym, I would make a caffeine cocktail consisting of 5-6 espresso in a plastic cup of 500ml size, then add milk for the other half.
Needless to say, this caffeine intake was trained from drinking 3-6+ coffee/espresso a day during work hours.

The habit died immediately with me quitting the job.

I think it strongly depends on the person whether or not you end up abusing it, I use it as a tool, and do get enough sleep (as long as I don't drink any past 16:00).

In a world as fast paced and demanding as ours, people are forced to choose between a trade-off of being permanently under some form of stimulant, or possibly out of a job/a raise.

It's quite unfortunate. It's a good idea to reassess the tradeoffs regarding caffeine, but for most working people, it might not be worth it.

That is interesting. I have some ashwaganda growing, currently. I've read that is can be a sedative? I may have to give it a try soon. Should I just make a tea out of it?

No idea about tea making, I had capsules with some kind of extract. Seems one has to aim for the root.
On a side note, there was a nexus member taking too much of it chronically and got hooked on it to an extend. He had to get de-conditioned from it. But I'm afraid this must have been mis-use of sorts.
The word 'sedative' is kind of a hard term, de-stresser slash motivator might be a better choice of words.

You might find this site informative.

Incidentally, I ended up reading Pollan's book and while it was readable, I would suggest the title "This is Michael Pollan's Mind While Worrying About Drugs" might make a more appropriate title. All-in-all it was somewhat disappointing although it would just about make a suitable introduction for the curious but otherwise uninformed in the subject of psychoactive plants. The references list could be considered useful in that respect. Spend your money elsewhere.

Thanks, Jees! I had tried ashwaganda years ago, and it didn't seem to agree with me, but would be interested in trying it again and seeing how it feels for me now.



Thanks, dithyramb! I tried mugwort a few months ago and didn't quite jive with it.

I've known of ephedra for years, and never really felt very drawn to it. I've read that it's being used as a precursor for meth production in Afghanistan, which is kind of interesting, but I realize that its obviously not the same thing.

From reading you posts on this forum, I actually got interested in Mistletoe, and have been adding it to my teas since late last fall/early winter. Mistletoe does seem to agree with me, and I do find it relaxing – maybe too relaxing, as it can make me a little sleepy.

A little bit goes a long way, so I typically add ¼ tsp. to my loose tea medley. I had actually mostly stopped doing that prior to reading your comment in this thread, as I felt like it was too relaxing for the daytime, but realized that I can just add more black tea and guayusa to balance things out, which is what I’ve been doing.

Thanks for the reply, could you describe, in short, what didn't work out well with you in the past please?

Sure, from what I remember, just similar issues that I had with other adaptogens, overstimulation, physical tension, and such. That was a long time ago, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it effected me differently now.

Coffe in the morning and Coca leaf in the afternoon ... for my the best combo.

Over 25 years of habitual coffee drinking up to and exceeding 7 cups a day. Often still with a cup of coffee and a roll up cig sitting at the computer at 3am as if it was normal.

Finally realised it was an addiction and quit about a year ago. No coffee since. Still enjoy a cup of tea so the addiction is not beaten. But the removal of coffee from my life has had nothing but positive impact.

Because I deal with so much fatigue I use caffeine often, though it can set off my anxiety.

Typically only in the morning, I take a 200mg tablet and drink a cup of black tea.

One love

I might as well add here, my current approach to more or less lifelong caffeine habituation consists of starting the day with a nice cup of foamy matcha, followed by a mug of milky freshly ground organic coffee, amounting to about three espresso shots. Throughout the remainder of the day I'll have two or three mugs of delicious black Ceylon tea, usually single estate and/or high grown. Sometimes I round things off with a mug of a high-theanine variety which is so relaxing during the daytime that I usually have to take a nap after drinking it.

One thing I'm strict about nowadays is keeping to the single mug of coffee per day when at home. If I've eaten at a restaurant I'll sometimes have a further cup of coffee but it's seldom of a comparable strength to the stuff I prepare at home.

This is an established, stable pattern of caffeine use for me. Backing it up with theanine really helps.