Right, well I am working on dmt furmate at the moment. In the mean time, I went an ordered some cappi harmaline extract form FV, only to find out 7 days later they never even had any in stock and so they just refunded my money.

Now I'm back to square one.

My question is, what should I take for pharma? I always hear negative stuff about rue seed. But I'm confused, does this mean rue seed taken as is? Or does that mean even the harmaline from rue seed?

Hmm maybe I should put it this way. Is harmine and harmaline the same whether it's from caapi or rue seed? Or do they both have different structures and features?

If they are indeed different, which one will allow me to have a more comfortable pharma trip? I'd prefer not to be throwing up, and not feel sleepy or any kind of discomfort.

And seeing that Flowing Visions is pretty much out of stock on all their extracts (It doesn't say it is, but it is), how should I go about getting harmine and harmaline extracted in a pure form? Should I order some rue seed, or caapi?

Thanks guys

Harmaline and harmine are at around a 50/50 mix in rue along with some other unpleasant alkaloids. Even sometimes with extracts from rue I feel like I have poisoned myself.

People prefer caapi because it contains almost no harmaline which is the more agressive harmaloid, but it contains almost equal portions of harmine and Tetrahydroharmine (THH). THH seems the more pleasant of the alkaloids. I haven't used caapi myself, but I have used pure THH and it was a very nice experience, very close to just DMT by itself, whereas harmine and harmaline really seem to colour the experience but in doing so make the visions more of this earth than the crazy realms of DMT.

Awesome, thank you for the information. Makes a little more sense now.

caapi

just a little nitpicking here but, at least from personal experience, it seems its more like, 2 thirds harmine and a third harmaline content in rue.. In any case harmaline is twice as potent so it is indeed a big part of the rue experience.. I havent experimented enough with pure harmaline to know, but people tend to say it is harder to deal with indeed, makes you more sleepy/dreamy and not as sharp and aware. I must say I like pure harmine and while it does colour the experience, I dont think it makes the visions more earthy than usual with dmt.. Caapi, whole or extract, are very nice too, never tried THH.

So if I was to say which harmala to use, from personal experience I would say caapi extract, caapi whole or pure harmine, all will be good, each in their own way. And from what others say, I would try with pure THH too

Hmm, well what exactly is caapi copy then?

I have played with all of the harmalas and their extracts and caapi extracts are by far and away the best. I initially used to brew rue teas and then bought pure rue extracts and they got the job done but I had no idea what I was missing. First I tried Caapi Copy and was blown away by the difference in the trip. Flowing Vision's CC added such friendship, warmth, and color to the trip that I thought my search was over. Pure THH was okay but seemed a little too serious and clinical. Then I tried Celestial Source's 20X extract and that won the crown. That stuff gives my trips distinct pink and violet themes and wraps around my soul with love and grace. 2 grams of it provides a six hour trip filled with security and insanity rolled into a wacky euphoric ball.

so your speaking of this?

https://celestialsource....ath=4&products_id=43

That's not too bad of a price, is that what you used joebono? 2 grams of that with how many mg of dmt?

Yes that is it. 2 grams of that and anywhere from 100-120mg of freebase DMT. 120mg can get pretty intense, you know like philosophical truths slamming you with your mouth wide open in disbelief. 100mg is sort of like a nice mushroom trip with pink and purple fuzzies everywhere.

well you've certainly piqued MY curiosity. i went online and bought 6 grams of the beautiful stuff! up til now i've been a devotee of caapi copy. FV's CC is just an entire other playing field compared to isolated Harmine, Harmaline or THH. the Caapi Copy experience is pure love and (for me) can be downright psychedelic by itself in doses of .025-.03

my question is this: am i reading this correctly....2 GRAMS? that seems like a LOT! these FV harmalas are usually taken sublingual in doses of 200mg....2 grams is 2000mg. is that a typo or do i really sublingual that much of this 20x?

L&G!!

FV harmala's are isolated and purified to 90-95%. Celestial Source's product is simply a 20x extract, about a tenth as potent weight for weight. So whatever your sublingual dose with FV's Caapi Copy, multiply by ten for the dose with the 20x extract.

Do you really use 200mg of CC sunlingually? For smoked DMT? That is a massive dose. 20-25mg is plenty active sublingually. DreamWaves is taking 2g 20x extract orally, not sublingually.

If you are interested in taking the time, a traditional Caapi brew is MASSIVELY rewarding.

I get the biggest hugs from Mama Aya, always. Sometimes she squeezes really hard, but... Hugs are all good!

And, sometimes I need a hug after seeing clowns.

While this math seems right it is not accurate from the perspective of bioassay (or hard data). There are several reasons why this math does not work. First and foremost, is the fact that we are comparing an unknown (a 20X extract from a different variety of caapi with an unknown concentration of alkaloids) to another seemingly known factor which does not take into account any variance of alkaloid concentration amongst different vines.. Doesn't work.

From the perspective of Bioassay I would argue that the CS 20X is approx. 1/5 the potency, not 1/10. Further, the CS 20X is active at .6gm, sufficient for MAO inhibition. I would personally recommend 1gm, but the preference will vary from spirit to spirit depending on the desired implementation of the caapi frequencies.

And it's not so bad to sublingual a gram of the 20X. I can't speak for two but one works fine. It takes a while to dissolve but the flavor is really quite stimulating. This act alone is enough to significantly change ones frequency.

Regarding traditional brew compared to the 20X .... This 20X is actually a traditional brew (using hydrochloric ethanol instead of water) which has been much more effectively completed than most typical aya brews. Hundreds of hours were spent in the preparation.

Maybe try Harmine, harmaline, thh and caapi copy on separate ocassions. Ive tried thh, harmine, both didnt work because of the low dmt dose, then I tried harmaline and wow, nice, very sedating, got waves of sort of like a stoned feeling for hours, but didnt feel rough at all.

From what I read from reports, seems like thh and caapi copy are the best choice. But this is something you must maybe experiment with so one day you will be able to give your point of view on this subject.

But more important with pharma seems to be the DMT dosage, this seems to be the one factor which is different from person to person. The MAOI dosage seems to be pretty consistent for most people.

Happy travels bro

I don't know why people rag on rue extract, I find it quite pleasant. I was somewhat sedated but in the hot-blanket-on-a-warm-day-curled-up-in-bed-while-getting-a-hug sort of way. But then again, I have little choice, being in Canada and all where harmalas are scheduled.

I should also mention that I have the most iron clad stomach of anyone I've ever met, so nausea is not a concern for me. I've drank rue+mimosa tea twice and not purged (second time, not even nausea!)

I was a bit reluctant to add anything at all to dmt, but this thread has peaked my interest. I would appreciate any advice for this beginner. I tried probably 10-20mg of THH, sublingually, but really didn't get much of anything. I keep hearing people speak of changa, but this caapi (20X) Cielo seems more ayahuasca authentic. Should I sublingually do 1 gram? Or do you boil it down ALONG with 100-120mg of freebase dmt in the same pot at the same time? Brewed for how long and in any cycles of filtering? This is what you call pharmahuasca? So there would be no smoking of anything to add to this experience? How much do you drink? Wouldn't it taste awful? Thanks for any input.

Damn they are out of stock!

I think when it says 20x, it is as if you are taking 20 times as much.

So 2g x 20 = 40g of regular vine.

i understand it's more using 20 grams of plain product (here caapi) reduced ten times.
It's not always exactly 20 times as potent, depending the what, how went the extraction.
But this can be around that 40 grams plain caapi gave 4 grams caapi extract.