If you've read Stan Grof, he says that psychedelics first allow us to work through issues caused by early personal experiences. After these issues are resolved, the psychedelics user then addresses perinatal (life and death) issues. But then after all these are addressed, I am unclear as to what the final state is. Is it bliss free from psychological hangups? Does personal growth continue beyond this point, and if so, how?

It seems that prominent psychedelics users reach states after long-term use that are very distinct between individuals, and not always positive. Take Timothy Leary, for example. Despite presumably many instances of ego death, it seemed to me that he still had plenty of psychological hangups late in life (for example, need for attention and the approval of others). Richard Alpert did reach what appears to be a much better integrated state, but he does not credit this exclusively to psychedelic drugs. In fact, he describes in his book Be Here Now how he was never able to maintain the insights he had under psychedelics once he "came down", despite various creative approaches such as deliberately staying high for over a week at a time. Presumably he gained some of this later through mysticism, yet he admits in his speeches that its still very much an ongoing process even after all these years. Then you could look at a shaman, or perhaps someone like Stan Grof or Albert Hoffman and think that they have worked through all their personal issues and are now free to help others in an unbiased way. But is this really the case, or do these people really still have most of the hangups that a non-user would have at a similar age?

Personally, do you have a long-term goal in terms of hoped for personal growth through psychedelics use? How do you feel your progress has been so far?

Elphologist

thats a wonderful thread

tons could be said about this but Ill try not to be too long (edit: mission half-failed )

correct me if im wrong but I dont think stan grof meant that it is as linear as its implied in your post, that the psychedelic experiences go necessarily from personal experience and down to perinatal issues.. Also, remember that we dont have to necessarily take his theory as a base for the discussion. I do find it his work fascinating but dont necessarily agree with everything.

In any case. I dont think that psychedelics is necessarily related to inner growth, though it can be a wonderful tool if thats your intention. Another thing to mention is that inner growth doesnt stop "when one resolved his traumas/hang-ups". The struggle for being ever more conscious is endless. Just as a small example, just like everybody has nails that ocasionaly need to be cut, so does every one have an ego, which, as an inherent characteristic, always tries to unsustainably grow and 'take over' more than it's share, so to say... So we have to always keep a watch, because it is a dynamic, morphing process. In just the same way, the effects that psychedelics unfold will reflect/enhance/distort/depend on all sorts of aspects and events and experiences and thoughts and emotions (and hence, two trips are never the same.. or "you never step twice in the same river" ).

As for my long term goal... Well, its not a very definite goal, like "I will use psychedelics to make some nice music" or "till I get enlightened" or whatever, but more like, it's a tool that helps regulating my never-ending process of inner development. Just like we cant look at the back of our heads, its a blindspot, we also have tons of blindspots in different senses, emotional, perceptualy, intellectually, etc. So psychedelics help me see things from a different perspective, "triangulating reality" (whoever said this was spot-on). So maybe at some point it can be used for looking at childhood issues, at another time is getting artistic inspiration, at another is relearning to become humble, another is for fun, another one is for philosophical/spiritual questioning, and thousands of other examples.

I dont know if I will ever say "Ok I will never take psychedelics again", but surely there were and will be different-lenght breaks throughout life. Even if I stop taking them, it wont be because I think I know it all or am fully perfect or anything of the sort..

As for the progress, I think it was great.. I have changed many habits that I dont think were good, I have completely how and what I eat, and the way to relate to my body, and am definitely healthier than before.. I think my relationship with my family and others has vastly improved and my appreciation of life too, and plenty of other things. Many of these changes were very sudden, right after some strong psychedelic trip, while others were more gradual, over the years. Its impossible to know "what if" it wasnt for the psychedelics, but I do think that, to whatever extent, but they did help me

Psychedelics have been an integral part of my life experience and they have been an effective tool for personal growth. They have not been a magic bullet to free me of all vices. I currently believe that the psychedelic experience is a part of the living experience and although it can help prepare you for death it doesn't necessarily give an understanding of what being dead is like. I currently believe that being dead is similar to the experience you can have under anesthesia where you can wake up after a long passage of time with no recollection as if you had just closed your eyes except you don't come out of it. This does not diminish the impact and awe of the psychedelic experience or of the astounding fact of life itself. I think that the final goal of psychedelic use to me is that when my time to pass does come that I can go gracefully and content that I have experienced the breadth of experience that psychedelics have added to my time of being alive.

This is indeed, a wonderful thread.



I agree with you on these points, endlessness. (and mostly everything else you said).
I think the struggle to be ever more mindful might work in a kind of plateau type of way. Some major breakthroughs being made, and then after a period, reaching a bottleneck ready for new and fresh progress - Like Khun's theory of scientific revolutions.

I find when I am doing work to improve myself, I will tackle the most pressing issues first.

It may sound disheartening to say that the struggle to be ever more conscious is never ending, but think of it as a lifestyle choice - we choose to enter a process of continual improvement, knowing that we are better for it.

Let me just take this oppertunity to shout the benefits of REGULAR EXERCISE!!!!!!!!! One problem for our generation is that we can completely satisfy our minds every whim at the touch of a button! but, live not in conceptualization, get out there and really experience the world. In knowing yourself to be who or what you conceptualized - its much much better

Since there will always be change, my personal growth will continue. As the field changes, the strategy changes. One needs to adapt.
And psychedelics are of course a nice tool for broadening the context in which our life takes place. Which helps allot.
Perspectiva .